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Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Guest625101138, Jul 14, 2008.

  1. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    I57
    Farther back in the thread I suggested you might try a small bow rudder. Rick said it would tip you the wrong way and it seemed to drop there. If the bow rudder was shorter than the rudder it might not be able to twist the boat but still give you some more turning force. Since you are about to abandon the current boat, it might not be such an issue to try. I.E., nothing really lost. You get the changes you have made done so quick this might not be a big investment in time. Just another uninvited suggestion. Good luck.

     
  2. spidennis
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    Location: south padre island, texas

    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    I think that I'll be giving it a try. It's not so important in open water but in narrow rivers it could mean the difference between getting thru a tight spot or getting hung up and wrapping the boat around a tree or rock.
     
  3. I57
    Joined: Feb 2008
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    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    I57 Senior Member

    Bow Rudder

    The bow rudder is one mod I haven't tried, would be interesting to try it. Have now gone back to a rudder and done away with the directional prop. Turning is much better but I slow up on turns more compared to the directional prop. The technique I used was to lean into the turn and dig in the outrigger, not having a rudder the boat didn't lose a lot of speed but had a big turning circle. Reason I went away from the directional prop was the extra stress it was putting on the flexible shaft and difficult to manouver in tight spots.
    Have now started building a new boat, Ricks V15 design. Fitting it with the involute gearbox and inline shaft, lighter and faster than my current one.

    Ian
     

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  4. spidennis
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    Location: south padre island, texas

    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    I remember some sort of kayak-ish craft on foils with a front rudder and it carved up the water like crazy! I should look for that later when I got some time tonight ..... saw it on youtube.
     
  5. GMR
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Location: Nova Scotia

    GMR Junior Member

    Not sure if this boat/boats will see the water this year but I am making progress. I'm building two hulls for a cat, but they will be set up to be used as singles with outriggers as well. This is my first boat since putting a plywood kayak kit together 40 years ago...a great learing experience for me! I have started a blog about this process at
    http://gmrprojects.blogspot.com/
    if anyone is interested. I still haven't finallized the cat frame and don't know yet how far off the water the deck should be.

    Glen
     
  6. spidennis
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    Location: south padre island, texas

    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    Nice Glenn! ..... and I subscribed to your blog so I can stay updated.

    If I can ask, just how did you strip over those v notches on the bottom of the hull? What size strips did you use?
     
  7. GMR
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Location: Nova Scotia

    GMR Junior Member

    Hi Spidennis

    I used 7/8 by 1/4 strips sawn from red cedar. We were using a band saw with a long guide to rip these but we still had a little trouble maintaining a constant thickness. Even though I had to taper all the strips it might have been better to use the commercial bead and cove type since the center 8 feet has a constant profile. The inconsitancies are strip thickness but also the orientation of each strip on such a small radius hull. If I did this again I would do the formers again with the CNC router but make the radius in 7/8" (or whatever strip width was) long segments instead of a smooth curve. Still be a fair bit of sanding though.....

    The final strip in the center of the hull was just barely wider than the V groove but I taped popsicle sticks to the formers on the tapered ends to support these and added glue to the sides which I didn't do on any of the other ones. Even though that is one place on the hull where you really want good support, I think that will be okay as long as the epoxy penetrates well between the strips.

    Cheers, Glen
     
  8. spidennis
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    Location: south padre island, texas

    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    Looking at the seadrive/spinfin type of unit and this Taipan F16 that I photoshopped to get a better look at what's what I think I see an option for this drive.

    Note the tramp and where it sits in relation to the rest of the boat, if from there it folded forward using my system then the tramp/platform would nearly be at the very bow, and with the seadrive mounted like Adrian's boat I could clear both bows while in the folded position and I'd not have to move anything in the way of the prop drive system.

    I'll have to work up my second model to reflect these ideas and see if the geometries work out.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    so this is close to what I want "Bad Kitty" to look like, peddle up front, tent on center platform, and that would either be in the expand OR folded position. For the EC (Everglades Challenge) I plan on doing the "Nightmare" thru a very tight and skinny waterway and might have to wait for the tides to change inwhich case I'll just camp in the folded position till the water comes back in. On the Suawanne or St. Mary, or on the portage I can sleep the same way while folded up, if need be, and the prop drive is out of the way.

    I'm liking how this seadrive system is panning out ....... but will also come up with a flying shaft system as well and then choose which direction to go.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. spidennis
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    Location: south padre island, texas

    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    After fussing around with model #2 I see that the now extended length platform of 8' still isn't long enough to get close enough to the bow to set in the seadrive/spinfin.

    I could though not fold the boat all the way to some thing close to folded but not all the way, then I could run the seadrive but if that were the case then I could also run the flying shaft type as well?

     
  10. joco
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    Location: ottawa/ontario

    joco Junior Member

    those natives propel sher look like a spinfin and so on.

    http://www.nativewatercraft.com/boat.cfm?id=13

    i did try them..they good...love the going forword and backword compare to an hobi that can not go backward..plus the speed was good to...and its easy to instal and take out etc.
    joco
     
  11. Scheny
    Joined: Feb 2012
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    Location: Vienna/Austria

    Scheny Junior Member

    New innovative HPB approach

    Hi guys!

    I am currently inventing a new approach for human powered boating. My idea was not have the longest and sleekest boat, but instead to have the smallest/lightest and removing the drag of the wave.

    You say thats impossible? No, in fact, it creates a small wave and surfs on it, reusing its energy this way.

    Key benefits:

    • Stable monohull
      Light weight
      Easy to build
      +50% speed at same weight/dimension
      -35% energy consumption at the same speed

    The prototype will be start building in March. Information can be found under:
    http://www.openwaterbike.com/projects/the-open-wavewaterbike-project/the-wave-interference-hull

    Data:
    Length: 2.6m
    Beam: 0.75m
    Draft: 0.35m
    Weight: 20kg
    Displacement: 105kg
    Cruise speed: 12km/h (6.5kt)

    Well, it won´t be the fastest, but at this values maybe the most popular.

    I am not a company and I do the research in my free time. After finishing the prototype, I will start to sell plans, but if there is enough demand, I can let it produce too.

    If you are interested, contact me.
    Sincerely, Andreas

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  12. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Good luck.

    What does it mean
    +50% speed at the same weight/dimension? You started off comparing to a "long, sleek" boat. So are you talking about the same weight or the same length?
     
  13. spidennis
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    Location: south padre island, texas

    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    Andreas,
    it sounds interesting .....
    but could you resize that image file please?
     
  14. Scheny
    Joined: Feb 2012
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    Location: Vienna/Austria

    Scheny Junior Member

    The drawback of this hullform (displacement glider invented by D.I. Theodor Eder) is, that the effect of wave interference can only be achieved while maintaining the dimensions. So for constructing a 105kg displacement boat, the length is only 2.6 meters, lowering the hull speed normally to about 4 knots. The wave eliminating effect rises the practical hullspeed to about double the speed normally achievable with a non-sleek displacer. +50% was measured in tow tank testings I got from the inventor while comparing it to a boat with the same length and weight. His calculation show a cruise speed at cadence of about 5.5 knots, but they are related from a 14 meter long boat. Because of higher efficiency in the drivetrain (in comparison bigger prop with slower speed), I am expecting a cruisespeed of nearly 7 knots.

    @spidennis: The image is an external link to a picture on my unfinished project page, thats why I can´t resize it from here.
     

  15. spidennis
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    Location: south padre island, texas

    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    all that technology and can't resize a pic?
    ok, here you go ......
     

    Attached Files:

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