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Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Guest625101138, Jul 14, 2008.

  1. plankton
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: Jupiter, FL

    plankton Hang on, beeg wave !

    Has any one made a paddle-wheel vessel ? I was always led to believe that they were efficient at transferring energy into movement and perhaps it could be possible to design a hull utilizing the wheel quarters as hull extensions. I would assume the drive mechanism would have to be geared for paddle-wheels.

    Rick, is your propellor on that free shaft of variable pitch ?
     
  2. Guest625101138

    Guest625101138 Previous Member

  3. Tiny Turnip
    Joined: Mar 2008
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    Location: Huddersfield, UK

    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    Beppe - I'm sorry for the slightly abrasive tone of my last post - it was at the end of a long and very frustrating day - I really shouldn't have posted in that frame of mind - I do apologise.
     
  4. Guest625101138

    Guest625101138 Previous Member

    This is straight from Godzilla optimisations for unconstrained hulls having identical displacement and design speed.

    Rick W
     
  5. Tiny Turnip
    Joined: Mar 2008
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    Location: Huddersfield, UK

    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    Rick, I haven't got to the engine calibration yet - though my other engines and I have discussed it. I would be very interested to see what outputs we can sustain, and how this would affect prop design. Possibly more of an issue is my capacity to fabricate custom propellors. I do have a tame stainless steel specialist though, so I could experiment with asking them to weld up the twisted blade 'blanks' and then grinding the foil profile as you have suggested elsewhere.
    I suspect that the most common engine combination will have a big power difference, as one of them is a keen club cyclist, who does audaxes regularly, and the other is me, who isn't and doesn't. Does that raise the interesting possibility of 2 different prop designs tailored for the different capabilities of the engines?

    We are aiming for initial testing that the thing works and doesn't fall apart in a local reservoir, and then shakedown and serious testing on Windermere, which gives us a 10.5 mile run each way. This will probably be in September.
    I am shortly going on holiday to camp on a Scottish island (Gigha) and it is sorely tempting to take the pedal boat with me, but I think in sense, an untried vessel without a dedicated second pilot, in Scottish coastal waters may not be a recipe for a happy start. Also very difficult to get bits!

    In the mean time, here are some workshop photos. The black anodised yoke holding the seacycle units is a standard sea cycle unit, from Meyers boat, as there is some degree of accuracy needed in the fit. The angle brackets in stainless steel which join the yokes to the spars I had made up locally. The spars are packed out to fit with oak. PUR adhesive everywhere.
     

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  6. Guest625101138

    Guest625101138 Previous Member

    TT
    I will be very surprised if you are not pleased with its performance. I think there will be a lot of onlookers impressed with the way it goes. You will get questions about how much it cost and where can I get one.

    There are some refinements like smaller rudders but these sort of boats are about chasing down detail. Also getting fitter in the process.

    Typically a trained rider likes to spin faster so you might find some imbalance because the props will be low slip. If you intend to operate with a single rider at times you might really like a second prop.

    With two up you might find the speed of spinning is uncomfortably fast for you if the other rider is good.

    One thing I recommend if you intend to go long distances are cleats on the pedals. It is surprising how much more comfortable it is if your feet are locked in. I use standard bicycle shoes. Others just use open sandals with a cleat.

    Without weight on the stern you might find it operates a bit bow down but trim should be good with weight on the platform.

    Rick W
     
  7. Tiny Turnip
    Joined: Mar 2008
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    Location: Huddersfield, UK

    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    and a few more. The longitudinal spars are held to the Dart cross members with u bolts. The 3 deck panels bolt down to the spars via captive nuts in the little blocks screwed and PURed to the side of the spars. The whole thing is designed to demount and travel on the original trailer. The red rope is my steering arrangement, to avoid the Dart's original great long tiller sweeping any passengers off the deck. The seat subframes are the final bit to finish. They will have a very simple fore-aft adjustment by clamping the seat base (not in the photos) to the deck through a small cut out, with two small G cramps. The seats themselves are a bit of an extravagance - from Trice engineering for their recumbants, but I thought a good comfortable position was pretty important for long cruises. I will fit new pedals with spds on one side, but the manufacturer of the unit has threadlocked the existing pedals in, so it is a bit of a tough job! I will also put adjustable webbing loops round the front crossmember, as hand restraints to pull on when pedalling hard.
     

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  8. Tiny Turnip
    Joined: Mar 2008
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    Location: Huddersfield, UK

    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    Thanks for your thoughts, Rick. just crossed in the posting - I'm on an ancient PC and dial-up so it takes a while to post pictures. I have been worried about the two up weight distribution being a bit too far forward, but I couldn't see a way round it without fairly major complexity, and I needed a quick and dirty build! I did think too, that a lot of the fun will be messing about with 4 up, or the camping gear, and we could stash that well back.
    I really appreciate your encouragement - its a great boost!
     
  9. Guest625101138

    Guest625101138 Previous Member

    Seat is next to the most important part of the boat; engine being #1!

    If you head in the other direction on next holidays you might be able to arrange to meet Clemens mid Channel. He seems to get a lot of satisfaction from his Seacycle in France. You should have a better top end speed.

    Rick W.
     

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  10. Tiny Turnip
    Joined: Mar 2008
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    Location: Huddersfield, UK

    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    Now, that sounds like a plan! Though Paul (the fit engine) is working on me to cross the Minch - to the outer Hebrides...
     
  11. beppe
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: Udine, Italy

    beppe Junior Member

    Open Waterbike...

    TT, thank you, apologies wholeheartedly accepted.
    Maybe I am a bit too sensitive about that project, but it is something in which I believe, you understand...
    I saw the photos of your watercraft you posted, TT, and let me say it seems a fine work. Did you build the drive units? I saw that the connection with the boat allows a kick-up action: how does it work? Could you post a photographic detail?
    Greetings from Italy!
    Beppe
     
  12. I57
    Joined: Feb 2008
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    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    I57 Senior Member

    Waterbike

    Beppe

    Here is an idea for your open waterbike project. The boat I am proposing is a blend of monohull and catamaran, you get the speed and stability of a catamaran with the single dry deck space of a canoe. The boat would be 4m - 5m long and approx. 1m beam. Construction would be moulded plastic with fixing point for drive leg, the boat would be complete with rudders and moulded seat. The only setup would be putting the drive in place, of course details and final dimensions would need to be worked out but it could be done. This would be a recreational boat that can be easily transported and almost anyone could use it.
    The .dwg file you posted I am unable to open, what is the best program to view it on?

    Ian Cassell
     

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  13. beppe
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: Udine, Italy

    beppe Junior Member

    Open Waterbike...

    Thank you Ian
    I have put this proposal of yours in the Open Waterbike website, open to comments form visitors, and hope someone will comment in this forum too.
    Sorry for the problems with the .dwg file, you need Autocad or another cad program to open and modify it.

    I'd like to share drawings in an easier way. Colleagues, any suggestion?

    Beppe
     
  14. johnnyld_3
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: Florida

    johnnyld_3 New Member

    I am brand new to HPB and have read a lot the past 2 days. I (and a handful of co-workers) am building a 2 hull catamarnan/pontoon type for a local race...more of a recreational event. We will have 6 men powering the boat. It is in the first stage of planning (the race is mid-Sept), but will be about 16' long and each pontoon about 2 to 2.5' wide made from solid foam. We are representing a cement company, so we are going to cover the foam with concrete. The two hulls joined by aluminum framing and covered with plywood. There will be 3 men on each of 2 props. I am estimating the total weight of the boat and "engines" to be around 2000 lbs...give or take a 200 lbs. It will be a beast, but a fun beast.
    My question is this...What props do I use? We will be able to fabricate a two blade prop such as the 16" MA409 profile or E193, but will they work for us? I tried to use JavaProp with no success. I plead ignorance. There is a lot terminoligy I do not know yet. Any help is greatly appreciated. - Johnny
     

  15. Tiny Turnip
    Joined: Mar 2008
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    Location: Huddersfield, UK

    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    Seacycle drive units

    Hi Beppe

    the drive units are seacycle units from Meyers boat

    http://www.meyersboat.com/seacycle/

    They have pretty comprehensive online drawings in the parts and manual section.

    I bought factory second (cosmetic) units. They are nice and robust, and run in an oil bath.

    The kickup is very simple, and is latched by a little spring loaded brass button, which keeps the unit down, or up. the spring pressure keeping the button out is adjustable.
     

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