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Slow Progress

Rick
Boat is still going slowly, just got back from touring Central Australia and a load of hassles when we got home. Got back to work on it this week, the flex shaft is going to be awkward because of its length and raising it out of the water. Apart from that I can sit it on the beach and slide it straight into the water, just a case of putting in the work and finishing it. Camera not working and away getting fixed (still under warranty) so no pics. Yes I do go to the Carrum Rowing course, but if the weather is good I go to the Patterson River and out onto the bay.
AmbitiousAmatur's boat looks interesting, how fast can it go on the road?
Load up your camping gear and go anywhere.

Ian

 

Ian
When do you aim to have it ready for the water. I might come over when you have your next run.

The rowing course is nice compared with Lysterfield right now. If we get more rain it might return to acceptable levels.

Rick

 

Boat on water

Rick
Can't predict a time when the boat will be ready but will let you know.
Have a lot of crap happening in my life at the moment so work on the boat
when I can. Rowing course is good but have to pick your day and time as a
lot of groups use it, I checked with Parks Victoria when I first went there and was told Tuesday and Friday are open to public. Other days can be okay so
usually drive down and have a look and if no show I go to Patterson River.
Keep you posted.

Ian

 

I've been missing the chats here so I subscribed to this thread to keep updated. I've been busy with cleaning out my garage for my new upcoming projects, one of which is a v14 type of craft which I can start on in sept (after my summer travels). I got much research to do, mostly on how to actually manufacture a craft like the v14, so I'll be doing much reading. I do however have plenty of surfboard and boat building going on locally, so I'll be taking a few local tours to help educate myself as well. If anyone has some links to share I'd surely welcome all of them!

I'll have to prep before I can build, so having the proper space to build is all important. I gotta figure out what part of my downstairs garage area to use. I've got a rear section, narrow, but 24' long, and it's got ac and a dehumidifier . I'll have to move my dirt bike, hope she won't mind too terribly! then I'll have to worry about tools for doing this, then a source of materials. hopefully my local guys can help me out with some of this?

I'd like to get a recumbent bike so I can train but I'll have to put that off for now. Running is what I'll be doing thru out the summer (hopefully!) It's been pretty brutal here so I try to do this at dawn. while I'm in upstate ny I won't have the heat problem, they got outdoor air conditioning!

anyway, I'm inspired to build and enter a few races. My two big ones will be the three day adirondack "90 miler" in upstate NY, and the tougher one, the texas water safari, a 260 mile, non stop, hotter than hell, mostly flat water race. I say mostly because it's start is narrow, winding, with a few small rapids. whatever design I end up with, it'll have to be able to turn!

 

V14 was built from two and half sheets of 3mm thick Klegecell but I would recommend 1/4" Corecell if you can get that. I did a single panel layup with 200gsm biaxial CF cloth either side of the core. The cloth I get at low cost is just over 1m wide. You will need 12 to 13m for the main and 4m for the two outriggers plus a sheet of core for the outriggers.

If you are careful with the hull design and panel cutting you can get the four pieces required for the central hull from the one panel.

You need a long flat area with smooth surface to make the main panel. The panel will be something like 1m wide by 6m long. I use chipboard for the table top.

I have used weights to apply pressure to form panels during curing but the result is less than perfect. Given the cost of these materials it is worth investing in a vacuum pump and peel ply to unsure even pressure and consistent surface finish. Always make a small test panel and run some simple destructive tests on it to sonfirm the process before you set up for the main run. It is best to do the outriggers first as thay carry very little load and shape is not very critical. They will take at least as long as the main hull to build but they require less space.

There are different forms of solid additives for the epoxy to make it suitable for making fillets on the internal joints and for making a fairing compound. Knowing the proportions to mix these to get the required consistency takes some trialling.

If you go back into the archives to earlier this year on the Adventuresofgreg site you will get some good detail on making panels.

I used 400gsm 75mm wide tape on the external chine joints on V14 to give them better abrasion restance. You could think about selective taping of likely abrasion areas to give increased wear resistance - remember it all adds weight.

I do not go overly lean on the wetting out of the CF cloth as thicker epoxy will increase buckling strength and this is the main failure mode when the boat hits a solid object like a rock. It is just waste of good material to add another full layer of cloth.

Rick W

 

rick, I got to thank you again for sharing all your great knowledge and experience. throughout the summer I'll be reading and going over again and again what I'll be needing to be ready come building time in sept. I just got my entry form for the "adirondack 90 miler" which is sept 11 - 13 and I'll be headed home just after that race, so I'l be all pumped up to build a fast craft. the adirondack race might be my last paddle race? this year I'll be using it just to scout out the course and figure out the logistics and using a plastic kayak unless I can borrow something different. there are a few portages, the biggest, which I've already done with a 70 lb plastic 2 person kayak, is a real bear, 1.25 miles of rocky trail. I used wheels where I could. I'll have to be able to portage my new craft somehow as there's a total of 5.25 miles of hoofing it! I have a set of wheels so I might see how that can stow behind the seat? with this race there's a 500 person limit and as for classes I'll just have to ask about this while at this year's race. they have a non-competitive class where you just compete to finish, and that class would be just fine for me. I understand how some might get upset having someone bend the rules and beat them, but I'm not out to actually beat them per say, but if it happens, well, opps!

Other than building the boat, lots of other things have to readied. I'm getting a front hitch for my jeep grand cherokee to aid in the roof top transport over thousands of miles. I've seen this used with a aluminum ladder as a span between the roof racks and the forward hitch mount. It seemed to be a pretty effective plan.

I think I've got my garage space figured out but will have to build the stands on which to build on.

but back to the boat ....
I think I need to set up the drive / seat / outrigger system first and how it's going to mount onto the deck of the main hull and outrigger hulls (almas?). this will also tell me just where I'll need to strengthen the hull sections for the added stresses. I read somewhere about gearing? this could be a good thing in my case? I don't know what my engine (me) can do, so variable gearing would allow me to figure out what's what? Or would just swapping out set gears like I do on the front counter sprocket of my motorcycle be the plan? ..... then there's that seat, hummm ...... not sure where to start on this! time to look at recumbent bike stuff?

I haven't yet gotten thru the Adventuresofgreg site but from what I've already seen has greatly increased my knowledge base to the point where I know I can do this, and am putting plans into action to build this.

 

dennis
The first two times I competed in the Murray Marathon I did not have a class but got very favourable interest. Some of the young observes along the shore called me a cheat because I look so relaxed compared with a paddler. But it is still hard work.

Last year I was alloted the unrestricted class and had an overall place. The overall result has a combined age and boat handicap or allowance so I was given an overall place. Aim is to place higher next race so I am working harder on fitness this year.

Last year's entry form even had a tick box for pedal power. There have been a few Hobie Mirages compete since I started pedalling.

I use 1" blue foam for bulkheads and these are placed approximately at 1m spacing. I place one directly under the aft cross tube of the drive frame. Also add one longitudinal bulkhead where I place my feet when not in the pedals.

The mounting points are just 6mm thick tapped buttons glassed onto the faired hull.

The outriggers use a single crossbrace inserted into the frame cross tube. You may prefer folding crossbraces so the outriggers stay with the hull for portage.

Rick W

 

I remember seeing a picture of your folding braces, I'll have to dig that up again. that would make things much faster and easier to hold, though more complex and heavier .....

 

I have used different methods of folding. Folding upwards over the seat will probably be the best for portage. The shift the CoG a bit higher when carrying but the hull fits snugly on the shoulder.

Rick W

 

folding outriggers

In remembering back at different big trailerable trimarians, they either swing up or to the side. here's one of yours I believe.

 

greg's outrigger system sure looks clean and simple .....
but won't work for me. It's gotta be folding and stronger.
I'll have some rapids in the river and waves in open lakes and bays.
and I can't forget the motorboat wakes ......

 

oops, I did it again .....
switching back to my thread here
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/adirondack-challenger-texas-water-safari-27634.html

 

rick!

i've got two cents!

for your next model, build the smallest cat you can with carbon tube space frame with UHMWPE skin under tension on the outside.



(
i don't have to explain these 3 reasons why do i?

1 uhmwpe adhesive tape cheap as (n 15 times stronger than steel); lightest hull,
2 tent poles cheap as (or online for professional jobbies),
3 dimensional relationships; much better surface/water pushed aside displacement ie single line is one dimensional, area is squared, volume is cubed. so you're better of with more single lines than volume (same sort of reason why cells have to be the size they are, surface area/volume relationships.
)

) mal


(?
perfectly flat bottom, push the water aside rather than trying to lift your own weight up. faster you go, better this gets.

loose the flex shaft - energy loss,

me? i'd try an inflateable uhmwpe bag around a geometric space frame. minimise turbulance, smoothest skin possible.

you've seen the water bike and hobbie kayak things? both use a thin foil instead of a propeller, like a seagulls wing that moves up and down. much more efficient than a propeller.

 

ah, i apologise. i realise that all these things have already been suggested. i'll try stay quite instead. i think that's better. just reading all these ideas now. read thread first. hmmm.

 

Most of the things you see peppered through this thread are the result of me investigating, hopefully thoroughly, a whole raft of "dumb" ideas over the last 7 years. So I consider any comment as a potential source of inspiration.

Some people have offered brilliant ideas that I felt were patentable but they could not be bothered exploiting it. So I shamelessly copy anything that has merit.

Rick W