Passengers UK Category C Waters

Discussion in 'Class Societies' started by Biggar1, Oct 14, 2017.

  1. Biggar1
    Joined: Oct 2017
    Posts: 10
    Likes: 2, Points: 3
    Location: Madeira

    Biggar1 Junior Member

    Hi,
    I wish to have built a passenger vessel, probably in Aluminium, to operate only in UK Category C waters. Vessels operating in those local waters now, only require an inspection from the local authority not the MCA, but can only carry 12 paying passengers. We could use an 18 - 20 feet Cheverton or similar open boat to carry that many passengers.

    To make the vessel more economically viable and to make it wheelchair/disabled friendly with passenger comfort etc, we wish to build a larger vessel probably 14m, to carry more passengers, for arguments sake say 50. The vessel would have all the correct safety equipment, stability booklet, passenger shelter etc.

    Reading the regulations for a new build vessel, we would have to get it fully Class approved with all the added expense, plan approval, build surveys etc. We would end up with a vessel that is Class VI. This would allow us to take the passengers offshore up to 20nm which we do not want to do. This in my opinion adds to the danger of the passengers.

    I read that you only need a Class V for category C waters, is it the same procedure for a new build, or is there another notation/procedure for building a vessel of this type that I am missing, or do I have to go for a full blown Class Survey.

    Any constructive advice would be appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
  2. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Welcome to the forum Biggar1

    You're main issue is going over 12 passengers. Once you do that you really are into the "big ships" rules, even if tailor for 'small boats'. You can't escape it.

    I don't understand this comment?

    If you want to do as requested/noted above, more than 12 passengers, you need to comply with MGN 1823.
     
  3. Biggar1
    Joined: Oct 2017
    Posts: 10
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    Location: Madeira

    Biggar1 Junior Member

    Hi Ad Hoc, thanks for the reply.

    My danger comment was meaning that if the boat is restricted to Cat C waters (in a sheltered area), once you have the certificate to let you go 20 miles offshore you are obviously increasing the risk, even though technically the boat is built to a standard to be able to manage the scenario. If you look at some of the current vessels with Class VI licences, I would not go 5 miles offshore in them, but they comply. As an example, the Blakeney Seal watching boats have many passengers, but you would not go to sea in them and you do not need to, to do the job they are doing, all well maintained boats too by the way.

    I thought/hoped that there may be a class that would restrict you to the Cat C waters and no further but be fully compliant with all safety requirements. I know that a lot of the existing boats have grandfather rights, but from what you say a "new build" needs to be all singing all dancing and go through the class procedure, BV, DNV, LR?
     
  4. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    The risk to the boat or the passengers?

    No one is forcing you to go further offshore, and no one is saying you must fit only the bear minimum according to the code to obtain your PO.

    If you feel there is "some risk" somewhere, then mitigate it. Owing a Ferrari doesn't mean you must drive at high speed all the time, just because the car can!

    There is, but, you have to accept 12 or less passengers.

    If you want more than 12, then you cross over to different rules and regulations. That's it.
     
  5. Biggar1
    Joined: Oct 2017
    Posts: 10
    Likes: 2, Points: 3
    Location: Madeira

    Biggar1 Junior Member

    This is one of the boats I was talking about Ad Hoc, could it technically go 20 nm offshore, even with grandfather rights, this is what was making me think there was something I was missing.
    I must point out that these boats have been operating safely for many years and doing a great job.
     

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  6. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Indeed. But regulations are not static. They change and are constantly updated to reflect in-service experience and accident/mistakes. We may not like the additions and often feel they are unnecessary - but there is little we can do about it, except to argue the case with the Flag state. Where upon they require a simple quid pro quo - for mitigation.
     
  7. Biggar1
    Joined: Oct 2017
    Posts: 10
    Likes: 2, Points: 3
    Location: Madeira

    Biggar1 Junior Member

    I did read somewhere that you can apply to, I think it was the secretary of state for a concession, probably easier to get a Class VI vessel built??

    Off to bed, cheers for your input.
     

  8. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 5,331
    Likes: 205, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    All you do is apply to the local MCA office that will survey your vessel. It is a very simple process. You tell them what rule(s) you disagree with and why and then provide mitigate as an equivalence; which may or may not include previous vessels as an example. That's it. Simple
     
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