Parallel Hybrid Propulsion for Planing Power Boats

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by Sleipnir, Jun 29, 2014.

  1. Sleipnir
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    Sleipnir Junior Member

    No useful hits on Google for the words Greenline, Seaway and subsidy.

    So let´s put this one to rest unless there's a relevant link coming up
     
  2. sinus
    Joined: Feb 2008
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    sinus Junior Member

    http://www.rtvslo.si/gospodarstvo/tri-milijarde-evrov-drzavnih-spodbud-koliko-pa-je-ucinka/331696
    (...15 mio euro subsidy Seaway= s 15 mio evrov spodbud tudi Seaway...)

    http://www.dnevnik.si/slovenija/1042549898
    (...In last 6 years 6 mio subsidy...)

    http://search.tb.ask.com/search/red...KGn/Uz9nP6A6jjVGGhnDrj5oQvGzHyEa/6+A==&ord=3&
    Officially report for few years for all subsidy, not only Seaway.



    Tons like this! Happy?
     
  3. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    I didn't read all this, but is it the problem with recreational fishing boats. Go fast to get there and then go slow to fish, solved by having a big motor and also a smaller outboard kicker?
     
  4. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Thank you. Since I am not a Slovenian, I would never arrive to the idea to search for the info in Slovenian language. ;)
    For English-speaking forum members, Google is your friend: http://www.google.com/translate?hl=...-spodbud-koliko-pa-je-ucinka/331696&sandbox=1

    Obviously, you were right about governmental susidies to the Seaway. But I think it was for a good cause, and hope the other EU countries will follow their path. In order to overcome this hard economical moment for everyone, a shock-therapy like this is imo necessary.

    Cheers
     
  5. sinus
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    sinus Junior Member

    Subsidys like this are presence all around Europe, Slovenia and Seaway are not unique.
    From my brange I know for example company from your neighbourhood-Bolzano, which last few years pay workers with money of district (subsidy becouse of demografic troubles or something). They reach oportunity to totaly destroy market with this buisenes politic (Cheaper products and-or more money for agresive marketing.) and become first player on world market, but they do it legaly.
     
  6. lucdekeyser
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    lucdekeyser Senior Member

    flywheel energy storage

    Sleipnir, this thread got somewhat sidetracked. Back to your interesting train of thought, do you see a place for flywheel energy storage as it is coming of age lately?
     
  7. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    I believe sailboaters who for whatever reason switch to a motor boat also want the 20+ knots cruising speed as well as the occasional silent 5-6 knots capability...

    Back in the 1960 era there was a 35ish sail boat built as to go fast , It was very light for its time and required a Detroit Diesel 8V71 to see 18K flank and 15K cruise.

    The fuel burn was 12 -16 GPH depending on speed.

    10 Min of that output would be hard to produce from a batt , 10 hours impossible.

    Most EX sailors retire to a motor boat to get UP and OUT of the hole in the water , and live above decks with a view.

    To open a window , not a port hole.

    They have experience with slow boat 7- 8K planning , and use the dink to water ski, not their cruiser.
     
  8. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Depends on the person. Many of the slower speed cruising boats (commonly called "trawlers" or "trollers") are purchased by former sailboat owners.
     
  9. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    However, those trawler are huge displacement floating homes that require large power to move. The windage alone is more than the usual flybridge cruiser.
     
  10. WestVanHan
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    You're right about that Gonzo plus the trawlers need to push a lot of water out of the way.

    My 52' OA cruiser gets the same mpg at 7 knots as does a Nordhavn 40..and at 13 knots I get the same mpg as a Nordhavn 50 does at 10 knots.
    At 28 knots I get the same mpg as the 50 does at 11 knots..

    It's not a trawler,but IIRC its rated at sea states of Beaufort 7-8,which is multitudes what I'll ever encounter.
    Plus,can be bought for 1/3 that of a Nord 50 and less than half that of a Nord 40...
    Horses for courses,people often get the wrong horse though.

    So having any sort of electric power-as belaboured here countless times- other than to go on lakes or down a canal or get in and out of the marina silently,is a waste of money.
     
  11. lucdekeyser
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    lucdekeyser Senior Member

    flywheel energy storage

    The OP has stated clearly the SOR's at the start of this thread.
    And explained the result of his reasonings in post #22 with the principal setup being:
    I sollicit comments on the feasibility of replacing the battery bank with an flywheel energy storage device adapted from something like the gyrodrive to better:
     
  12. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    You should study the phenomenon of precesion caused by rotating objects. Flywheels are used as stabilizers because of it.
     
  13. lucdekeyser
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    lucdekeyser Senior Member

    sailboats are not race cars nor public busses, but these vehicles would also need to take precession into account. Could it be used in also a stabilizing manner? If this would be problematic, some flywheel energy storage devices are fully gimbaled.
     

  14. Sleipnir
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    Sleipnir Junior Member

    Sorry, I haven't been paying attention much lately.

    A flywheel storage device is certainly not out of the question, but it depends how it stacks up against batteries. I don't know a lot about them, but the big uncertainty is market availability (when?), price and of course storage capacity (Wh per kg). Especially the last could be the weak point, but I would be happy to learn otherwise.

    The flywheel storage device is described as ideal for repeated high power cycling, but Lithium-Ion batteries are already capable of providing enough power for what I suggest.

    The life-expectancy of 1 million cycles is not an advantage either, as the typical leisure boat will be running 50-200 hours/year with usually much less than one cycle per hour; so it's difficult to imagine an energy storage device in a hybrid boat reaching more than a few thousands cycles in the life time of the boat.

    If the capability to absorb and release energy could somehow be combined with this http://www.seakeeper.com/ then there could be a use for it.... but probably mostly for bigger yachts (20+ tons). If the spin-up was reversible.... i.e. energy could be retrieved at little conversion loss in return for slightly reduced rpm of they gyro, then such a device could give back most of the spin-up energy input as domestic on-board power when there is no longer need for stabilization. Just a thought.... I have no idea if it has merits.... but it could in some cases reduce generator run time significantly.
     
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