OUTRAGE! Ady Gil (Earthrace) trimaran rammed and sunk by whalers!

I'll make you a bet, son. I've been in a few rough places in my time. I actually have stood up for people who were attacked on the streets or elsewhere, and I have the scars to prove it. You're pretty good at pounding your keyboard like a gorilla pounding his chest; everyone with a laptop these days seems to be Chuck Norris' little brother. But my bet is that you can't say you've done the same, unless you're willing to lie. So you can take your 'supposing' about what I would and wouldn't do, and shove it.

You're right about one thing, though: I care more about a logger or seaman working his butt off to feed his family than I do about the eco-punk activists attacking him--most of whom have probably never done an honest day's work in their lives.

If you're under the narcissistic illusion that Paul Watson is 'defenseless' and needs the likes of you to protect him, that's some good !@#$ you're smoking....you ought to share.

 

International Law is a murky and ill defined thing. At it's foundation it is conflicted and in practice ignored or followed by whim. From a pragmatic viewpoint it is enforced by those strong enough to impose their will on those unable to effectively resist. Japanese whaling as it exists today can be framed as a perfectly legal operation in full harmony within the framework that is currently in place.

The same cannot be said of Watson. By every metric available he is beyond the pale. On a certain level I can admire him for having the courage of his convictions. But that being said, if I was threatened by him in the fashion for which he is infamous, I would without hesitation shoot him down like the rapid dog he is.

If one was to "stand" up for Watson in situ whatever harm befell you would be self inflicted and more than likely well deserved.

"The fact that you seem to admire whalers and loggers and their actions, tells me exactly the sort of person you are."

Why not admire honest hardworking people who engage in tough dangerous work bringing goods to market so that the rest of us may make use of them? The more people we have in the world who live like that the better.

 

It is of course quite obvious that if people didn't eat whale then there would be no need to catch them

I thought I might go down the market and see if I can get some whale meat this morning. I mean its only responsible to look at this from both sides.

If people are prepared to go to so much trouble to get it then maybe im missing something.
Ive never eaten it before, but then Ive never had reason to think about it.

 

9000 watts is roughly equivilent to half a dozen or so kids with their cars maxed out techwise for sound. At the moment I would say in this particular incident, despite the high tech equipment, the score is Whalers 1, terrorists 0.

While I have always been a Furuno man I will make very sure I never buy a product of any kind from the Simrad people. Donations to terrorists are no way to get my custom. A mere coincidence that from an electronics standpoint I side with the japanese, sometimes things just work out.

 

in reverse order

I've eaten both dog and whale
I prefer dog actually

any investigation is or at least should be an organic process otherwise what was the point of the investigation in the first place. If in the course of research I find that I am mistaken on any given issue or point in regards to the larger issue Im cool with admitting it and moving forward to continue the learning process. Its maintaining an open mind that allows one to become educated in the first place If maintaining an open mind bothers some people; maybe those are the folks you should not be listening to. A mind is like a parachute, it only works when its open.

both species are on the red list
no assumptions there

see previous

and yet they banned whaling internationally and indefinitely and that ban has not been lifted

I listed both species considered Minke and specifically pointed out the both are red listed and when they made the list

Troy
a pedantic argument?
well at least its a step up from the semantic
both positions are tenable within the law but one more strongly than the other
law is always that way
therefore we need a judiciary to settle legal misunderstandings

point being that some ( the Japanese in this case ) bring frivolous claims

I believe it has been claimed that the Japanese have not actually produced any science out of there lethal "research"
it would be interesting to investigate that next
however
dinner and a few beers are calling and if I dont get
Ill be late

cheers
B

in summary
whaling is illegal under several international treaty's
some more binding than others
the Japanese were whaling
therefor engaged in a illegal activity

 

I dunno Tolly-Wally...this was likely simply a very expensive victory for the "terrorists"...a word that seems to be used very..very loosely these days...I say this because this forum is one thing but I suspect the media coverage outside this forum is generally very good for the SS plight...and draws more sympathy and outrage than negativity from the public...sorry...but the score is more likely ...hippies 1 Whalers 0. Just callin' 'em as I sees 'em...

 

The more I watch the various videos the more I expect a strictly objective inquiry to find fault with both skippers.

And I'm wondering if it might be seen as SHONAN MARU who did the overtaking of the ADY GIL?

Found this here: http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2010/01/07/120075_todays-news.html

Now, cold a hard-nosed inquisitor find the master of ADY GIL at some level of negligence for allowing his vessel to run that low on fuel in such close proximity to other vessels?

21 photos here http://tools.themercury.com.au/photo-gallery/photo_gallery_popup.php?category_id=6005

What I haven't found yet is what was AG doing in the couple hours up to the point of collision.


Sea Shepherd is going to get someone killed by Tory Maguire
http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/sea-shepherd-is-going-to-get-someone-killed/

 

What is this thread about exactly, Whaling treaties or the collision of the Ady Gil?

 

Yes, it is about Whaling treaties or the collision of the Ady Gil.

It is the ADY GIL's operator's views of the treaties which led them to acquire and operate AG in a manner which contributed to the collision.
And SHONAN MARU's operators' views of the treaties which led them to operate in that location.

Those are what supply the context wherein the collision took place.

Ultimately, it is true, the operators' views of the treaties are not ship handling issues; and, it is solely the two parties' ship handling regarding the collision which is to be investigated.

 

Interesting comments about SimRad donating a new Marine Radar to the Pirates, after theirs was carried away by a BIG Wave....

I have been in the Marine Electronic Biz for 40+ Years... and never liked Simrad Gear much in the first place, but this gives me a very GOOD Reason to express my concern directly to their Corporate Folks as a dealer, which went out 10 minutes ago. "I am dropping your Line from my Operations, due to your Corporate support for Pirates."

I have ALWAYS liked the Furuno Products, mostly because THEY WORK. I still have KRA-448 Radars in my fleet, that are as good today, as they were the day I installed them.

I also am very interested in watching for any, and all, Proceedings, and Investigations, into the Collision. I would hope that The relevant Countries haul ALL the Skippers into Admiralty Court, and we get this whole thing sorted out, as to alleged Gross Violations of the International Rules of the Road for Vessel Navigation on the High Seas.

If, and when, that happens, I suspect that the SeaSheperd Skippers should, and will, have their Masters Licenses Suspended or Revoked... What actions that get taken against the Japanese Master, remains to be seen.

If only I could be the Hearing Officer.... Oh well, just life little disappointments.....

 

It was mentioned earlier that he does not have a masters license. That might be why his crew has to be volunteers?

 

If you look at both the videos the one from the japanese vessel clearly shows the ady gil idling forward from about .47 seconds on then gunning it from .57 seconds. This is a boat that can do 50 knots, so my guess is being as light as she is she gets to said 50 knots rather quickly. Then if you watch the video from the SS ship you can see that the shonan maru is turning to starboard. My guess would be to get close enough to give the ady gil a good and proper hose down not to collide with it. What you will notice is the turn to starboard by the SM isn't that fast, however as they collide with the ady gil the SM's turn to port looks to me like a full lock turn taking in to account how long ships take to react to that.

I see absolutely no reason for the japanese to deliberately do this. What purpose would it possibly serve for them?

I see every reason for SS to do this. It doesn't take an idiot to see what it has done for them. Paul Watson says the ady gil was not moving however it is clearly moving in both videos..



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brw6JN0lQXY

 

Watson wasn't on the Ady Gil, anyway. But I'm willing to bet she was registered as a recreational craft, and therefore didn't need a licensed master. I know that the Sea Shepherds have had problems before in places like South Africa (and Canada, I think), because their former commercial vessels are registered as yachts.

But listen to this bit of bombastic Watson nonsense straight off the Sea Shepherd website--from a man who has never had a license to skipper even a water taxi, but calls himself 'Captain' anyway:

For thirty years, I have skippered Sea Shepherd ships and I've been going to sea all my life. I have commanded hundreds of high seas voyages and I've had the helm through hurricanes, trans-oceanic voyages, and through ice-packs. From the top of the world to the bottom and around the equator and most places in between.

Really. 'Hundreds' of high seas voyages, Mr. Watson? Come now.....

I would say his crews are made up of volunteers so he doesn't have to pay them. Fanatic patsies work cheap....ask Osama Bin Laden.

 

The capatain of the whaler may well have realized the collision was imminent and by turned into it to get the rear of the sip and her prop away from the collision for fear of hurting survivers.

As did the Titanic turn to STBD when the ice burg was at her STBD. once the bow had hid turning into it would clear the stern and possible the side of the ship.

 

My assumption , if as stated by the "batship" they were low on fuel, they would have stopped - left the engine/s engaged to maintain minimal stability during the risky process of transferring fuel to a "day-tank" in the engine room and balancing the load to maintain reasonable seaworthiness, by cross pumping various ballast-tanks as is necessary on a relatively small and light vessel during significant fuel transfers... They would have to maintain some minimal way to hold a heading that would give an easier ride during fuel pumping...

The Japanese certainly appeared to hard to starboard then make hard to port in a dangerous and stupid manoeuvre that does not behove claims of good seamanship and avoiding another vessel on the whalers part... It does appear that the Japanese were making the "overtaking manoeuvre"...