Origami steel yacht construction

Apples and oranges. A pressure vessel isn't subject to buckling forces the way a displacement one is. A submarine is to a boat as an oxygen cylinder is to a propane cylinder; it's a more critical application of the same principles and useful as an illustration.

I've just thought of another one. You specify spreaders on your homemade masts right? Well what are spreaders and shrouds but an external framework designed to keep the structure from buckling? Why not just increase the wall thickness and have a frameless mast? Perhaps because it would be too heavy for the same strength? Face it Brent, you are wrong on the engineering. Apply clue bat to forehead, repeat as necessary.

 

Wynand,
congratulations with your new website! I enjoyed your old one very much, a sad day when you had to close it down.
I tried to register, without luck. Is it not working yet?
Regards
Walter

 

That was all true until Brent lost the argument about boat weights & construction speed (thank you Wynand). Then he redefined origami to include the VDS boats.

You have to laugh really.

PDW

 

Van de Stad 34's don't have frames. Nor do may Bruce Roberts frameless designs, nor the 38 that Wynand did.

Years ago, I heard on CBC radio, a story about a guy who wrote a song called "The Working at the Woolco Blues." The local Woolco manager phoned him up and threatened to sue him. The head office phoned up that manager and ordered him to back off. They said "Any publicity is good publicity."
Must be true. Since this debate began, book and plan sales have increased drastically. Who would even know the name of Salmon Rushdie if the nabobs had ignored him. They have made his name a household word. By condemning him publicly , they have made him rich.
There's is nothing like a good controversy to increase the sales of any book.
Thanks guys . Keep up the good work.
My supporters have been quietly ordering books and plans, as a result of your efforts.
Mucho gracias.

Given the torture tests my boats have endured, there is clearly not enough momentum at hull speed to come even close to buckling anything. And the laws of physics are not about to change any time soon ,in response to your requests. Intelligent people can clearly see that.
I'm sure Wynand has provided some excellent, well built craft, for those with the money to squander on the totally irellevant perfectionism he enjoys. Those who can't afford to squander money, and dwindling life time on others' obsessions, come to me. I take great pride in having provided affordable, good looking, but totally safe and seaworthy boats which my clients could never afford any other way , if the price included the irrelevant obsessions of other builders.

 

A mast is a lot narrower than a hull, and a lot thinner.
Apples and oranges?

 

If you can't win an argument, because your points are too feeble to stand up to open debate, then your solution is to limit the debate to only those with little or no experience in the subject at hand. Sounds like an admission of the unsustainability of your arguments.

 

this is unfair, since you do not debate. and why you think it an admission of anything, you are not a psychoanalyst, you are a fail welder.
I say fail, because on your own admission you do not work since you had 24 years old. a welder who stop working and do not finish the welding (your own post) loose its ability to perform, and his license.
I think you are not in a position to make that kind of statement, since you are not a professional (your own admission) and you don't provide plans (your own admission)
But you ramble, like someone who was left over by the side of the road by his parents and the society. A reject in an other word.
this is about steel, and steel building, you make the thread as twisted as possible. you dare to use the term debate. you don't even knows what it means.

 

Ban Brent Swain!

He is allowed to call me a liar, a cheater, a snakeoils salesman, no problem. No, really, I give a **** on such idiots opinion.

Ban Brent Swain!

He is not allowed to scr@w. up our Forum.

Ban Brent Swain!

He has no right to expose his drivel and unsupported claims year, after year after year, after year!

This is not the Brent swain Forum, when it gets to metal boat questions!

Ban Brent Swain!

We stood all his attacks for more than five years.
We supported his income by not attacking the method.
We offered professional recalculations of his insufficient guess work.
We refused to reduce his reputation points. (I did not)
We tried at least a hundred times to come from drivel to facts.

Ban Brent Swain! He is destroying the value of this Forum.

Ban BS!

Nobody here has a advantage of this member. All have a disadvantage of his attacks and anecdotes.

Ban BS!

We cannot in all seriousness discuss metal boats issues without being ovewhelmed by BS´s shitty drivel. That man is the enemy of our spirit, no matter how valid his (it is not his) method of boat building is.

Ban BS! and do it now!

Regards
Richard

 

I suggest his title be permanently changed from "Senior Member" to "Troll" or "Troller" and as a description it just says "Full of BS".

Jarl
http://dallur.com

 

What!this is still going on?
Cmon,you folks need Brent.You keep coming back for more!

Oh, just a small nitpicking point,but I have a mast with no shrouds . and it's never going to "Buckle" because it has no shrouds and spreaders.Try another analogy.please,this one's confusing.

 

LOL, too funny! If Wynand had scrounged used materials & equipment and slapped the boats together any old way, I doubt that they would have been more expensive than Brent's. In fact, I'd be surprised if he wouldn't find the used crap for much cheaper in South Africa, than in Canada. So, if one wants to buy questionable floating garbage, contact Brent. But, if that same someone thinks, "but I'm going to use all new materials & equipment & do a decent job on the steelwork and interior." he/she should be warned that it'll cost him/her the same as building another design.

As this thread is about origami boats, and as Brent likes to pontificate on the virtues of his version of them, I think that we should indulge him. As I've been typing, out of the corner of my eye, I spotted a set of study plans for a 39' "Spirit", designed by: Glen-L staff(Ken Hankinson, Project N.A.)

Now, these are only study plans, not suitable for building the boat. I believe that they cost me about $15(US)+ s&h. As well as typed information on all aspects of the boat & it's construction, There are the following drawings:
1)Outboard Profile - Sail Plan - Ketch Rig, same for cutter rig
2)Body Plan
3)Deck Plan
4)Accommodations Plan
5)Joinery Profiles for each side
6)Construction Profile
7)Construction Half-Plans
8)Sections Plan(yes, all of them - construction info included)



Now, If I remember correctly, they came with a materials list, as well. To buy the plans to build this boat, one pays $548(USD) + s&h, not that far off of Brent's price for his drawings.

So, what is it that is so puzzling here? Brent states that He and Van de Stadt are the only designers whom have brought innovation to steel boatbuilding in the past 100 years. So, where does Ken Hankinson get the nerve to charge more than Brent? I might say that of most, if not all, designers & naval architects. I mean, come on guys, what's up with that? O.K., so Brent has no formal education in design, he knows a couple of guys who do. And, sure, he never served an apprenticeship under any veteran designer or NA, but he's read a few books &, surely, is today's equivalent of da Vinci. Am I right? Okay, not the greatest welder or fitter in comox, but steel is so forgiving that it really isn't relevant. On these size & design of boats, one could probably just spill a can of JBWeld on each seam & it'd do the job. Dozens of his designs have each sailed tens of thousands of miles, hit barges & rocks at hull speed+, and never have any of them suffered structural damage(sigh, such "Simplicity"). Why Jeff doesn't just kick the other designers, naval architects, engineers, fabricators, boilermakers, fitters, welders, and nay-sayers off these forums and call it the Swain forums is beyond me. If we sinners were willing to repent, perhaps practice some self-flagellation as penance, maybe we'd be allowed to remain and witness this great man, this leader of the intelligent!:idea: I have seen the light!

 

So? Increase the cross section. Adds weight no? Compared to adding spreaders (frames) to it.

No, it's a structure subject to external buckling loads which makes it relevant as a thought experiment unlike your pressure vessel example which is not relevant at all.

Obviously I was talking about the marconi masts that Brent specifies. Can you make a freestanding steel junk mast that tall on that boat without having a rig that's way too heavy? I don't think so. Your mast definitely will buckle at the partners (or break if it's wood) if it encounters a load that exceeds it's ultimate strength.

 

Having added a few quotes together from this page only, only one thing comes to mind.

BTW, have anyone noticed that new steel boat building threads does not happens anymore, and if so, very seldom. Everyone get hijacked by you know what.

Your call Jeff...

 

His response above clearly confirms this observation. Just like his (lack of) response in the other thread. ( Thread rules stated that one should provide evidence upon request for any fact stated. I asked for it. )

I am starting to get very upset of Richard's behaviour. He repeatedly states false accusations against others, turns threads into flamewars, and now he even have the guts to call for banning Brent.
Well, Brent certainly have his problems, but even his behaviour is an order of magnitude more civilized than Richard's.