Origami steel yacht construction

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by origamiboats, Nov 30, 2001.

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  1. Brent Swain
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Brent Swain Member

    I pointed out how if you take away the cost of steel welding rods cutting materials paint , etc you have the <mod note: removed on the basis of being a personal attack> <minimum> wages Wynand paid his crew.
    I also pointed out that the Van de Stadt 34 is an origami boat.
    Outside frames are a huge advantage for the building of many such identical origami boats , but are a waste of time for a one off.
     
  2. Brent Swain
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    Brent Swain Member

    Putting big funnels in your larger thru hulls is another good way to get the sand out of a hull. It's far easier to shovl sand thru a funnel, than to lift it over the rail. The more funnels, the less waiting time for it to clear.
     
  3. bearflag
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    bearflag Inventor/Fabricator

    Maybe it has to do with them being internally pressurized...

    If they were designed to resist external forces they certainly would have bulkheads and baffles inside of them.

    I wouldn't try to compare scuba, LPG, or boiler type pressurized tanks to your boat that would be a losing battle on your part. There are a few boilermakers on this site and I imagine they would take offense on that.

    If you care to learn about how they make scuba tanks here you go though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzVogfVxXPc&feature=related
     
  4. Brent Swain
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    Brent Swain Member

    Come step in the ring and call me Susy, Priscilla.
     
  5. rugludallur
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    rugludallur Rugludallur

    Because on one hand you have compression load but on the other you have tensile load, buckling only occurs with compression loads hence framing is only required when you have a pressure vessel with a higher pressure on the outside, like with boats.

    Jarl
    http://dallur.com
     
  6. Brent Swain
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    Brent Swain Member

    Some of the ten pounders have concave bottoms, which puts the 16 gauge under 100 PSI compression on the top of the dome.
     
  7. Brent Swain
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    Brent Swain Member

    After pounding on the beach for weeks, the 36 in the photo was pulled off, with not a dent in her plating, and was as fair as any new steel hull.. The only dent was in the stern, where they tried to jack it out of the sand with a hydraulic jack. Had she had transverse frames, the plate would have been wrapped around the frames, and she would have looked like a starved dog.
    That is why it is a mistake to put transverse framing where it is not needed. A framed hull would have been badly dented in the same conditions.
     
  8. rugludallur
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    rugludallur Rugludallur

    Actually if you design a dome correctly you can get 100% compressive forces but ideally it should not be a half sphere, the optimal shape is a parabolic shape and there are many examples of concrete domes which illustrate this.

    The parabolic or half sphere resists buckling quite well due to it's form but a cylinder does not fair as well, a flat plate would fair even worse.

    The reason for framing is that the stiffness and therefor resistance to buckling increases cubically (to the third power) with a linear increase in thickness(width).


    Jarl
    http://dallur.com
     
  9. bearflag
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    bearflag Inventor/Fabricator

    The biggest thing that Brent seems to never understand is that scale matters.

    Sure, absolutely... you can build almost any sized thing of any sorts frameless and meet the required strength. Just that the frameless thing will weigh more than the thing with internally or externally supported structural elements.

    This is true in bridges, buildings, and boats and every other thing in the world.

    Furthermore things like pressure cylinders are very close to being ideal structures in that the forces they are resisting are very nearly uniform. On a boat or a bridge that will never be the case, and relying on your geometric curvature to save your bacon is just asking for structural failure.
     
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  10. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Brent this has all been pointed out to you before, but you never learn or listen. Just keep beating the same old drum. Posting the same rubbish.

    Here's a comment made to you before about pressure vessels:
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/me...in-frames-demystified-24066-6.html#post257326

    Why do you keep posting such distorted observations. It reeks of very dishonest marketing IMO.
    Is there anything you'd like to help you understand that a pressure vessel has absolutely no relevance to the loads on a boat hull?
     
  11. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder


    Brent Swain, you are a filthy and a vile person - in fact, a champion one. Jeff can ban me for this, but this type of remark shows the mentality and wrapped mind of the filthy sick person you are. Second time you raised this matter and members attached you for that before.

    First of all you idiot, if you cannot spell the word apartheid, never mind pronouncing it, creep back in your hole. You know **** all about it and so the rest of the world if you had not lived, experienced it.
    Separate cultures and beliefs got nothing to do with wages. (country now in a standstill and on its knees with BLACK government workers and other sectors on a national strike for ridiculous increase demands as were always the case, even when I build boats - so bad in fact, that blacks have died in hospital because of there comrades striking and it is the whites helping out big time in government departments and hospitals and get harassed for doing that - but you would not know it)

    I had explained before when you raised this sick argument. We have minimum wages controlled by unions and you cannot except the fact that when you hassled me for prices on my boats, that the vd Stadt 34's I built turned out cheaper than the crap you produced.
    As to your claim in quote: here is the sucker punch - if you care to look in the photos I pasted over the years of my boats built, you should have noticed that most people in them, boilermakers, welders, apprentices and myself are white and only two laborers of colour used between them....yes, I am a racist looking after my own kind, and surely they demanded "premium" rates....:?: :confused:
    Again, you can thank yourself I'm across the Atlantic or I would have made it my business to come and visit you for something you will remember me by.

    And v/d Stadt 34 IS NOT AND ORIGAMI boat but then again you know more of things you have no clue off as is always the case. I had built 4 off these boats, how many did you to make the remark??

    Time you fade away with your wrapped versions of truth, quotes misquoted and stupidity you so kindly showered us with. Go back to MBS where you can ******** the uninformed. Here are professionals lurking around and you will get caught out everytime....
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010
  12. pdwiley
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    Hey, by Brent's definition Bruce Roberts boats are origami designs too. In fact everything made with flat sheets of metal is origami!

    What they're NOT is lacking internal transverse frames, though.

    BTW by my figuring there's a minimum of just over 100 linear metres of weld in a 36' origami hull. Brent claims that he can cut out all the plate, pull it together and completely finish weld it in 2 days. Even with the total lack of QA in grinding back the cut edges and the downright bodgy, sloppy welds evident in the video, this is a bit hard to believe. I'd like to see it done under a camera and time clock.

    PDW
     
  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Well roared Lion!

    And again I support banning BS, not you! 5 years of the same drivel, self promoting, lies and insults are enough.

    My opinion.
    Richard
     
  14. Northman
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    Northman Junior Member

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by apex1
    Ahh, don´t get too prissy here Susy, you called all of us liars during the past five years.
    And you have had not the slightest problem to accuse Wynand of cheating his customers!

    BTW
    have you found a scanner now? Or shall I do the scans again and post your "drawings" here?
    You could not argue again about copyright infringements, because you stated clearly you would post them here when you would have a scanner at hand!

    Well Brent, that might help your ego but it still doesn't answer Richards question if you want him to post your drawings? Since you obviously still are without access to a scanner, I mean. As an honest designer it sure must be in your interest to discuss the obvious design flaws in your boats that have been pointed out for you and everybody else? If not for your sake, at least have the descency to do this for the sake of your customers!
    It might interest the members of this forum that I recently received a lines drawing from BS as an addition to the building plans for his 36 ft that I had bought earlier. A well respected NA had the courtesy to check both and it appeared that transverse sections and profile deviated from each other with 200 mm :rolleyes:
    Seems instead of threatening people with a beating like the next bully you better should use your time trying to understand the advice you have been offered here on several occasions.
    Regards
    Walter
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010

  15. Wynand N
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    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Correct me if I'm wrong - ORIGAMI means folding something out of a SINGLE piece of something, paper steel etc.
    BS uses various sheets joint together, a slit or two cut into the plate and then the plate ***** with chain blocks etc with force to take up the form so to speak. All this for a half a hull - then a repeat process for the other side. Sh*t, no wonder that boats are so ugly - and is not true origami.

    V/d Stadt 34 / 40 are FRAMELESS boats build from CAD developed plates, put into a former and the hull formed. In fact, the plates (4mm) do not need excessive force to form the shape - we pushed it together by hand.
    Then again, the hull is well supported with numerous longitudinal stringers, transverse steel floors, partial steel b/heads etc, especially at critical places like chainplates, mast support.
    Wont have a mast punch through the floor as with a BS boat mention elsewhere in this thread.

    Clearly, BS claimed semi origami type method and v/d Stadt frameless build method are universes apart....:rolleyes:

    Anyone interested in a decent Origami boat, check this out; http://www.yago-project.com/
    It is Gerd Muller's site and in fact, you can DOWNLOAD FULL SETS OF BUILDING PLANS for different sizes boats for FREE - good solid German engineering and the scantling on his boats are based on calculations as per Dave Gerr's book "Boat Strength". Someone close to him informed me of the fact.
    A much better deal and it wont cost you a penny...some food for thought.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010
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