Origami steel yacht construction

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by origamiboats, Nov 30, 2001.

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  1. Brent Swain
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    Brent Swain Member

    In the 70's, when I began work at Great West Steel in Burnaby, everyone laughed when I started work with a set of ear protectors. That is the standard reaction from luddites, when someone does something new.
    The next day a couple more guys showed up with them . By the end of the week, everyone had them. The degree of fatigue at the end of the shift was drastically reduced.
     
  2. Brent Swain
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    Brent Swain Member

    Once a boat is rigged and sailing, 90% of the weight I add in personal belongings is well below the VCG and much of it is below the VCB, which al adds greatly to ultimate stability. In the inverted position the engine weight adds a lot to the self righting ability. The tankage is below the VCB , unless I follow advice given here, to make the centreline useless as tankage and raise the tankage above the VCB
    The mast has as much buoyancy as it's dry weight, adding 3400 ft lbs in righting moment the minute it begins to submerge, and greatly enhancing ultimate stability. If it breaks , it becomes irrelevant.
     
  3. Brent Swain
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    Brent Swain Member

    Wheel abrading is done by steel shot being thrown at the surface of the steel by wheels, centrifugal force accelerating it to high speed. It can warp light plate, which is why some refuse to do anything under ten gauge. I have told them we have used such slightly warped deck plate many times in the past with no problems . Some times they do 11 guage , sometimes they refuse.
    The problem began when some ******* ordered 11 gauge then demanded compensation for the warpage, which they knew damned well would happen. screwing things up for the rest of us.
    For masts, I found heat shrinking strips will pull them a straight as a good pool cue.
    Roll it on blocks to check for straightness, and to find out where the shrinkage is needed next.
     
  4. Brent Swain
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    Brent Swain Member

    You calculate the distance between supports, as the distance between longitudinals, such as chines , hull deck joint , welded in tank tops, and centreline. Chines , centrelines , hull deck joints and the edges of welded in tank tops are all far stronger than any transverse frames. Their running along curves, instead of flat, makes them even stronger.

    Is some one claiming that 1/8th plate , right next to a frame, is more resistant to being holed than 3/16th?

    Is someone claiming that Jean Marc's and Harvey's boats don't exist? That those folks in Comox , Bella Bella and Christmas Island have only been imagining what they see? That the 3,000 lb of framing in a tahiti ketch doesn't weigh more than an extra 1/16th of an inch of plate? That 1/8th is no less resistant to distortion and corrosion than 3/16th?

    And they call me a liar?
    Apex started it by calling me a liar? I have the right to respond.
     
  5. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    That's the problem with fiction, it's an invitation for critics :p so don't cry about it.
    And please have that Origami thrivel of yours in their own threads..
    Found a scanner yet? :p
     
  6. bearflag
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    bearflag Inventor/Fabricator

    Wishing it were so doesn't change reality.
     
  7. TomThumb28
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    TomThumb28 Junior Member

    Brent, why do submarines have transverse frames? Since curved sections add phenomenal strength and there is far more transverse curvature in a pressure hull compared to longitudinal it seems to me that they should have longitudinal stringers only. I guess the people who design them are a bunch of idiots.
     
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  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Ahh, don´t get too prissy here Susy, you called all of us liars during the past five years.
    And you have had not the slightest problem to accuse Wynand of cheating his customers!

    BTW
    have you found a scanner now? Or shall I do the scans again and post your "drawings" here?
    You could not argue again about copyright infringements, because you stated clearly you would post them here when you would have a scanner at hand!

    And just to inform you

    a drawing with adulterated scale, which does not allow to be used for building, therefore not infringe your, or any intellectual property rights, can be published ´til the cows come home!

    Calculations, descriptions, plans and ideas, prone to lead to injuries or the loss of life, can be discussed publicly regardless of copyrights!
    That is sure the case with yours!

    Have nice day Susy!
     
  9. larry larisky

    larry larisky Previous Member

    your great western steel in burnaby and yourself must have been pretty dumb retarded. you pretend you implemented the hear protection, that my friend is quite a lie.
    it was implemented before you born. almost, i don't know your age, but way before the 70, i was there.
    you seams to forget something, other people works, probably more than you, so don't try to make yourself more important. you are just a dilettante. yes i read all your posts, typical of a jack of all trade, without any deep understanding of anything, but a vague idea of everything.
     
  10. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

     
  11. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    You can continue the transverse across the tank top above it then nothing would change except you'd get rid of an abysmal design flaw and use a bit of otherwise scrap steel to very good cause.



    That's the unsupported plating but what supports the longitudinals?

    They too have a span and a load they aquire from the plate and since you are talking a basic grillage it might pay to try and understand just where those stresses actually go.

    Your 36 footer might get away with some willful mis-uderstanding but nothing larger will.
     
  12. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Yes relatively thin shells and closely spaced transverses and no longitudinals.

    From memory the uboats had 18mm shells 3m diameter pressure hull and 900mm spaced transverses of around 180 by 10mm and no longitudinals at all. They were ok to around 300 feet operational and 450 emergency dives. which is a decent load.

    It's all about buckling!
     
  13. pdwiley
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    .......The tankage is below the VCB , unless I follow advice given here, to make the centreline useless as tankage and raise the tankage above the VCB......

    You don't even need to do that, though it would be simplest. Any barely competent steel worker could slit that tank top where the transverse frames lay and then fit the tank top anyway. That would give the added benefit of some partial baffles (there are no baffles in that tank as designed) and take up no more interior room in the hull, as a frame across the top of the tank would do.

    How hard is it to cut a couple of 6mm slots in some 5mm steel, after all?

    PDW
     
  14. Brent Swain
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    Brent Swain Member

    Why dont propane tanks have frames, given they are only 16 gauge, and hold over 100PSI. and given that shape gives little structural advantage, why don't they make them and scuba tanks square ?
     

  15. Brent Swain
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    Brent Swain Member

    You say a chine, or a fully welded on deck is not as strong as a flatbar frame?
    Duuhhh!!!
     
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