Origami steel yacht construction

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by origamiboats, Nov 30, 2001.

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  1. Brent Swain
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: British Columbia

    Brent Swain Member

    If someone who has built three dozen boats with his own hands, is either a novice or an amateur,then we would be interested in hearing how many boats you have built with your own hands and how many ocean crossings and how many thousands of open ocean miles you have done in your own designs , which you have built with your own hands, as well as how many decades you have lived aboard these boats and maintained them for.
    When a six year old stands on the street corner calling you names, should you take him seriously? Why would anyone take seriously anyone with the mentality of a six year old?
     
  2. DrCraze
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    DrCraze Junior Member

    Dont worry he reached his apex long ago. My guess is he realizes this and simply lashes out whenever he feels threatened:D
     
  3. Brent Swain
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: British Columbia

    Brent Swain Member

    Making stainless weld passes and grinding them almost flush is another way to protect corners and wear points from corroding, after paint gets chipped, if the areas effected are small..
    People who have always worked for people who are filthy rich, for whom money is no object , are totally unqualified to design or build anything for someone on a limited budget.
     
  4. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    Sasha- I dont care if he builds a million boats a year- he could be next to god in design etc..(but not bloody likely) the point is -he likes to throw insults--and for what purpose? did he not get enough attention from his father or something that he needs to put down-insult, try to discourage others dreams and plain be an ***?...is it cuz he is jealous?...because maybe he failed to build his dreams?? and now wants to drag others down with him??

    one thing is certain his way of going about helping- thats not normal...

    there are many here that are as knowledgeable or more even more knowedgable than him but like everyone- he has a choice--he has a choice as we all do- he can respond kindly and give advise in a way that opens people up to listening to him for the betterment of all to offer his alledged years of expertise to make things better or he can choose to cause *****...if he is so good at what he does then he should sympathize with people who ARE trying to become better-- but no--he just likes to cause crap...so i am tired of him throwing insults at not just me - but many others for no good reason...if he chooses to do that he is going to get a backlash ! I dont know the guy but the first couple times he replied to my threads..he was insolent. i let it go for a bit but im tired of it and i am just going to throw back what he dishes out-- btw show me something positive he has inputed?? i have to yet see it???? and ive read more than a few threads with him being insulting and offering nothing but a poor attitude. the word to use here is being "courteous" and "respectful" - you get back what you give so now its his turn--

    btw where did i say that i used someones else design and redesign it?
    --1. i am no pro true--
    2. if someone wants to throw insults- be prepared to back it up..
    3. if he(and apparently you too!) can do a better result for what i have designed it for, since he implied i was not very good just as you have --let him! prove it! and you too!
    4. your assuming i know nothing...hmmmnot a smart thing to do make dumb assumptions!
    i know more than you think..maybe even more than you? maybe you should be the one asking yourself - if this post bothers you and if so why?
    so why defend him? maybe you two are deliberately trying to discourage others dreams?
    AND FINALLY- you stated "Your quite impertinent statements that you "designed", or "calculated" go not hand in hand with your complete lack of knowledge about the simplest principles"

    ****well then i guess Sasha- this is your chance to explain to all of us on this thread how to better do it!!
     
  5. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    sorry Brent--ill leave it there- i know this is your thread--

    anyway sorry for the asking a "novice" question - but when you are building origami style-- how do you know if one side is in fair in relation to the other and to plans??
     
  6. Guest62110524

    Guest62110524 Previous Member

    First I support Brent, why? because he is a battler and honest and has done exactly what he says he has, even though I DO not like his theory or his boats

    there are many who have done exactly nothing and purport to be experts, when in fact they have learnt all from this site

    So before you judge
    Would it not be an idea to research the background of folk, before making what in the world of Reality, would be scurrilous and defamatory accusations?
    I mean would you not go to the thread FACES TO NAMES and see to whom you talk? Would you not go to the profile and gallery to see who they are and what they have produced ? Would you research background?
    Some who have posted here are nothing but frauds
    You can not SEE them, you do not know who they are and yet they manage somehow to bluff?
     
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  7. capt littlelegs
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    Location: England

    capt littlelegs New Member

    They are also called Walts (Walter Mitty). Those of us who do have experience can spot them easily and sometimes play along! BTW if someone sets up a boat factory employing others to do all the work, they don't need to know anything about boats... they can just pretend to be boat builders... I've never seen a forum so full of egoists that must be obeyed LOL.
     
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  8. SheetWise
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Location: Phoenix

    SheetWise All Beach -- No Water.

    This has been fun -- as I enjoy a good pissing contest as well as the next guy -- but I'm interested in the drawbacks of the origami method ...

    It has been said that it eliminates welds -- but what is the largest size sheet steel that a person can practically obtain?

    A natural fold seems, logically, to be an efficient shape -- but what about stability?

    I'm glad to see this thread revived, as I'm not even sure I understand what "traditional" boat building means any longer. I understand there are desired metrics that haven't changed -- but available materials and ability to predict performance are advancing daily.

    Please explain what some of the flaws of this concept are -- or else I have to assume that this is just a contest about personalities.
     
  9. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    It allow to do only one kind of shape which you can't control entirely. So you have no way to verifie the performance, nor the sructural integrity.
    Brent did the same boat over and over. No way to diversifie, nor to have an other type of boat than the boat the plate of steel decide you will have. You can't control your shape. You can't control the end result.
    Length no more the 30'. It's heavy and prone to be noisy.
    It is dangerous, and difficult due to the large steel plate involve.
    Origami is a misnomer for develloped cone.
    Origami means paper folded, not cone develloped.
    I suppose people like to invent name for something very well knowne in the industy, steel, aluminum or plywood.
    Daniel
     
  10. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    Sheetwise- wow i have to agree with you--there are so many ways now to build a boat- i personally would like to try the the origami method -im just learning about it...it makes sense to me also, i had thought about stitch and glue and why it wasnt used for steel boatbuilding--then not long ago i found out its not called stich and glue steel- its "origami" which would explain why i couldnt find info on it when i tried until now

    may i ask what boat you were thinking of building in origami? what to me seems to be an advantage at least for my potential boat is i can use thicker plate and i dont need all the extra costs of transverse frames. but i am still learning about this- i plan to buy the Book and at least have some reference masterial...cant wait to read it!
    as for the flaws--i cant say too much but one i considered was making sure the hull was staying fair as you were pulling it in-i.e. if your even an inch or two out for instance down the vessels centerline- it could affect a lot. also possibly needing more than one person for a build??? but i was curious too as to the drawbacks so im not sure--but hope that helps...

    Cheers
     
  11. SheetWise
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    SheetWise All Beach -- No Water.

    Thank you Daniel -- you confirm my suspicions and may put this thread back on an even keel. Whatever the merits, you have added information. The sort of cheer-leading I've been reading is just noise. I value these forums in their ability to separate information from noise -- not for their static. I don't mean to offend anyone, but continued responses really should contain questions or information -- not assaults or grandstanding.
     
  12. Brent Swain
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: British Columbia

    Brent Swain Member

    I've seen everything from catboats to offshore cruisers to planing powerboats to displacement power boats to tugs built, using origami methods. So much for the claim that it is only useable for one hull shape. Any hard chined hull can be easily built using origami methods. I've compared several boats ansd htey are the same dimensions to within 1 1/16th of an inch. The consistency of the hull plate shapes equals the consistency of the end result. If the plates for two hulls are identical then it is geometricaly impossible for the end result to be anything but identical.
    Structural integrity has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt, time and time again, over many decades, tens of thousands of miles, and many severe torture tests..
    It is no more noisy than any other steel boat, in fact very quiet ,once sprayfoamed.
    There is nothing dangerous about cranking a big sheet of steel off the ground with comealongs. Is is far safer then lifting plates onto frames.
    With far more boats of my designs built in the 36 ft range , claims that it only works to 30 feet, when it has been proven time an time again in much larger boats, is a bare faced lie.
    Origami is the best way to describe the method, one that makes it quickly clear what it involves. Do you have a better name?
    I am a boxer , trained to fire back when someone takes a swing at me. There have been many swings and sarcastic shots at me on this site. Go back and read them. I don't buy exceptionalism, where some one can take shots at me and I'm not allowed to fire back, in kind. Fire back I will, always.
     
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  13. peter radclyffe
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    Location: europe

    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    quote

    I've compared several boats ansd htey are the same dimensions to within 1 1/16th of an inch.
     
  14. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Congratulation for boxing, but you miss the point as usual.
    You take it as a personal offense.
    I was talking about the boat, not the person. THE BOAT, NOT YOU.
    Stop be so sissy boxing guy and get back to the heart of the problem.
    Your boat design, not you, is wrong.
    Yes your boat, NOT YOU, are dangerous, what ever you can say, the lake of structural integrity due to the lake of transmission of forces make your boat not so good as you clamed.
    the chain plates, the windlass, the ballast, the rudder, the mast, are all independent in your design. Bonded only by the outside plating.
    Now you get it, it is I repeat not yourself, I don't know you, and I don't care about you, it is your design which sucks big deal.
    And why telling us about boxing? Make you more macho?
    No, the world do not revolve around you, but I find your conception of building and designing quite not to the task.
    Conical development, is the name.
    Daniel
     

  15. Brent Swain
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: British Columbia

    Brent Swain Member


    A chain is only as strong as it's weakest point.
    The chainplates have far more metal in their base than there is above the hole that takes the turnbuckle pin , so that is the weakest point , far stronger than the turnbuckle that goes on them. The windalass is far stronger than any anchor rode it will be pulling on. My mooring bitts are good for 90,000 lbs shear strength.
    The ballast , 4500 lbs, is encased in a 1/4 inch plate keel, 60,000 psi, or 15,000 lbs per linear inch , 24 feet of plate at the top, 360,000 lbs total tensile strength supporting 4500 lbs of ballast in 1,000 lbs of steel ,totalling 5500 lns , And you say that much steel is structuraly inadequate ? You say that 360,000 lbs of tensile strength is not enough to support 5500 lbs of keel ? And you preach to me to do the math?
    Man ,do you have a problem!
    You still refuse to tell us of how many steel boats you have owned, lived aboard in a cold climate , and maintained for over ten years, how many you have built with your own hands, what torture teasts they have endured, etc etc, And you still are trying to tell us that that which has worked for decades and tens of thousands of miles of ocean cruising " Won't work." Man ,do you have a problem!
    Any boat which can survive 16 days of pounding in huge surf on a Baja lee shore unscathed is anything but dangerous, far less dangerous than your "approved "fibreglass hull ,which would have broken up in 20 minutes in the same conditions.
    Dont get it? Man, you really have a problem.
    If you take identical pieces of square plate and join them corner to corner , the resulting cubes will be identical . The same is true of origami hulls. Anyone incapable of comrehending this basic geometric fact , is incapable of contributing any calculations that would be useful.
     
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