Origami steel yacht construction

As I said in the other forum I think it is best to keep these threads going. I view them as a public service. quite a few people who were thinking about a bS boat. plus I imagine for every poster there are a dozen who haven't posted.

 

The barge was moored to a wharf in Gibsons BC ,in front of Grammas pub, in the fall of 81.
The pub was full of witnesses, many of whom repeated the story to me . BC archutect Cesar Caflish was aboard the 36. In Canada we don't waste health care dollars on mindless bureaucracies, dealing with minor incidents, in which there was no harm done. That is why we still have a health care system, unlike our neighbours.

 

Tap the foil in the middle. No dent. Then tap the foil right next to a hard point, the edge of the cup ( frame) It dents far more easily with a hard point to stretch against.
Comparing foil to 3/16th to 3/8th plate is grasping at straws ,to desparately try to prop up a lost arguement on it's last legs.
"Foil" is what commercially built boats, designed by commercial designers use for stanchions.
Offer your sevices to a welding outfit to tell them what the tensile strength of their welds are, by looking at a photo of them. Tell them that you know more about what's inside the weld than the guy who welded it. Report the reaction you get, back here.
Despite all they have run into in the last 30 years, and hundreds of thousands of ocean miles, no one has managed to dent the conic bow sections yet. You are claiming that which has never happened, in 30 years of ocean cruising, in many boats, is easy to do, and very likely to happen? You are 30 years too late to make that arguement.
In November of 1985 I was frozen in Manson's lagoon in five inches of ice. As I was worried about how long it may stay cold for., I bashed my way out thru 1/4 mile of five inch ice in three days.. Ramming it at 5 knots had no effect on the steel ,and surprisingly ,had little effect on the epoxy ,except the leading edges of the keels and the stem. Surprisingly ,the half inch nylon three starnd anchor rode was unnaffected by the ice, except it was a lot cleaner where it went thru the ice.
Naturally it warmed up a day after I got out, and the ice all melted.

 

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If someone wants to build a frameless boat that builds fast and easily, I would recommend the v/d Stadt 34 or the Stadt 40. Well engineered and pleasant to look at.
I had built a few of the 34's and from scratch to welded hull ready for grit blasting took 18 working days on average inclusive of floors, stringers etc fitted[/QUOTE]


Were those Van de Stadts built in a back yard ,without lifting equipment ,by only two guys using minimal equipment?
What did they cost their owners?
With the equipment you guys with shops have ,and the number of employees, I could build one of my 36 footers in two days. The owner wouldn't have to pay my rent and overhead for times when business is slow. They provide the place, tools (often borrowed from a family member) etc There is no comparison with the cost of having everything provided by a company, and having to be replaced by the company form time to time.

When a client is talking about building a boat a couple of years down the road, I suggest they start building their detail in advance. About a third of the metal work can be done in advance without having a large building site, or being tied down to the project. This drasticaly rduces the burnout factor. Some get pissed of when I give such advice, because they want to get paid to do it for them ,or sell them stuff when they are in a hurry and need it right away.I suggest they scrounge as much of the materials and gear they need in advance. When you have couple of years to shop for things ,they get a lot cheaper.
i also suggeast they get sailing and get some enjoyment out of the boat and som eexpereince with her, before finishing everything. One client said "It costs less to launch a boat in spring , use her for the summer, and haul her out for the winter, to finish the interior, than to pay rent all summer. It also recharges ones enthusiasm batteries.

You still refuse to tell us how much your hulls cost, especially the one with all the frames you posted.
How much framing does the Van de Stadt 40 have?

 

What appears as a slight dimple alongside the skeg in the photos ,is simply the sides of the skeg running outward ,while the deadrise of the hull goes upward.

 

you mean st pierre and miquelon of course

 

Stongall has been building frameles boats for decades with no problems. Bruce Roberts has had many of his designs done framless for decades , as has Van de Stadt. No problem. Graeme Shannon Greg Elliot and Tanton yachts all design in origami now , No problems.
None of the many people who have actual cruising experience in my boats would consider anything else. Some are on their second and third origami boat after tens of thousands of miles in their first origami boat.
You are dead wrong again, as with most of your comments.

I

 

As a person who spent 11 years in Antarctica for at least a big part of every summer, working on icebreakers, I call ******** on this statement. Maybe you broke out through 5mm of ice and your memory is playing tricks on you.

We operated 6 tonne 30' workboats with twin 200HP diesels and they wouldn't go through 5" of ice. You've got - what - a 20 HP engine in a 6 tonne boat?

Not only ******** but TOTAL ********. Not even anything to do with origami structures, you simply don't have the HP to do it in a small sailboat.

Think about what Brent's saying. He has a 31' boat frozen in a cake of ice that extends for 400m. He can't back up and get a run at it, he's frozen in. The ice is a solid sheet. Call it circular. That's over 15,000 cubic metres of ice at 125mm thick or damn close to 15 kilotonnes. How do you get moving?

Icebreakers don't wedge their way through ice unless it's really thin, they have a hull shape that rides up on the ice and the ship's forward mass causes the ice to break and it then can get displaced sideways over or under the surrounding ice. Sometimes they ride up on a chunk and it doesn't break, lots of fun trying to back off for another run if you've used full ahead power. When stopped in the pack we used to keep the engines running and a pool of free water astern just so we could back up and get some momentum for breaking ice.

Brent can do better than this in a 31' sailboat with around 20HP, fixed blade prop. Wow, perhaps we should use his hull designs for our workboats.

Not.

PDW

 

Health care costs in both countries are rising faster than inflation.[14][15] As both countries consider changes to their systems, there is debate over whether resources should be added to the public or private sector. Although Canadians and Americans have each looked to the other for ways to improve their respective health care systems, there exists a substantial amount of conflicting information regarding the relative merits of the two systems.[16] In Canada, the United States is used as a model and as a warning against increasing private sector involvement in financing health care. In the U.S., meanwhile, Canada's mostly monopsonistic health system is seen by different sides of the ideological spectrum as either a model to be followed or avoided

 

One of our most valuable and knowledgeable members, MikeJohns, a qualified structural engineer, has been very professional and patient with BS, trying to correct and reason with him to no avail, but to get shunned with bull **** from BS.

I have as much faith in someone who claims that shape has little effect on structural stiffness ,as I have in Enron, Briex, Aig or Conrad Black being put in charge of my financial affairs.
I have zero faith in the calculations of someone who considers 1000 waves, a long term issue.

 

somebody is caught his pants down

 

Well, I, for one, feel vindicated by the photos & discussion that have taken place on this thread. Many of the members have, in other threads, read Brent's accusations that I criticized this same boat with the intent of driving down the sale price, that I might "steal it" for material salvage value.

Would anybody whom knows anything about welding, buy a boat project that was fabricated to this level of "quality"? To quote another poster, the steelwork on this boat was an "abortion". No welding inspector would bother to NDT the welds on such a specimen. They'd pull the company's certification/welder's ticket. This is no exaggeration, as many of you know. Did the buyer really pay $17,000 for it? If so, he was ripped-off & doesn't understand the true meaning of friends. "Friends" who fool one into believing that such an abomination is no big deal ALWAY$ have a hidden agenda.

Magwas, to be honest, I couldn't care less that you are bored by this thread, if you don't want to read it/make useful contributions, there are other threads on this forum that do not focus on these boats. Read them.

As the thread is "Origami steel yacht construction", perhaps we should move on to the quality designers & builders of such a construction method and discuss/promote their products, as Brent's are, obviously, a poor example.

Wynand has mentioned Van de Stadt's designs. Tad Roberts & Yves Tanton have designs which are constructed in this method. There has been mention of Dutch designers & builders and other Europeans whom have used this method of construction, etc. . What I am suggesting is that we don't "throw the baby out with the bath water". If one can build a safe, aesthetically- pleasing "origami" boat in a short time, relative to more traditional methods, it seems worthy of consideration and discussion. Better that we promote dreams, rather than, discuss nightmares.
Mike

 

My last boat ,with her more vertical topsides would have been stopped by 1/2 inch ice. My current boat ,with bows closer to those of an a icebreaker rides up on the ice and breaks thru by its weight. At five knots I could get her to climb up on about a meter of ice before stopping. Then she would break her way thru. Along the beach, where I was when the lagoon froze over,was broken ice, broken by the tides.. That let me gain enough momentum to get started. The ifirst night I made the mistake of parking at the front end of the break which made it hard to back up for a run the next day. After that I would stop at the back of the break so I could get a run at the thin over night freeze up in the morning . That worked much better ,as did chopping a weak point in the ice with an axe a few feet ahead of the open water before making my run.
Right now, I have an appointment with a cheesebuger, a warm lake and a white sand beach ( Bahamas north). Been her since may ,and will be until the weather turns cold. So I'll let you guys go back to your offices, jobs , treadmills, and computers while I carry on . Hard to picture ice in the lagoon now.

 

When I was at the Coast Guard College, in Nova Scotia, the people from the east coast & "central" Canada used to razz us that the only ice we saw was in our booze glasses! Yeah, the lagoon at Manson's Landing(Cortes Island) ices over. 5 inches? LMAO! But, this is another "Brentism" regurgitated.
Mike

 

never explain when you are caught your pants down.
make matter worst
enjoy the ladies