On going steel boat maintenace

Not really the case.

The Cabo San Lucas storm of December 1982 is covered fairly completely in the Pardey's book, The Capable Cruiser. They flew in a day or two after the storm to report for various magazines (Cruising World?). An onshore gale with winds reported to be gusting 50-70 knots with huge seas put 27 boats on a sand beach. Five boats were salvaged basically intact, 11 other hulls where recognizable but damaged beyond repair or sunk in the sand. Six large boats were shattered beyond recognition, and 6 disappeared (out to sea?) completely. Joshua was the only steel boat that landed on the beach.

Besides Joshua, the Bristol Channel cutter Vagabundo, the Olson 40 (ULDB) Notorious, an Omega 44 Grace, and Dancing Bear, a Cabot 36 all survived and went sailing. These are all fiberglass production boats.

 

Tad, it is one thing for a boat to be washed out on a nice smooth sandy beach, away from other boats and debris, as the ULDB showed and they are indeed build flimsy, but quite a different scenario when boats are washed up on top of another. Those I guarantee you, had not survived intact, as was the case with Joshua dug out from underneath other boats, bits and pieces...wish I can find the magazine the pics were publish in at the time

Perhaps I am biased toward steel boats because I build them, but I am producing GRP boats as well now. That said, how many boats were lost hitting floating or semi submerged objects, containers, collisions with large ships, whales, hitting reefs etc? I had seen photos taken of a GRP boat just after the collision with a whale - happened at night when the whale surfaced under the boat and pushed the keel right through the hull destroying the hull, and sunk within a minute. And the oceans getting "dirtier" every day by littering.
There are many legends of steel example on case; boats stuck on reefs for a couple of weeks and slammed by waves, towed off by a passing ship and sailed home, albeit a bit dented and scratched or small repairs.
Usually, in the unlikely event of steel being punctured (rather bend) after a collision, the actual tear or hole will be small and easily fixed temporally by hitting a piece of wood into it for instance.
The same would not be true for a GRP boat.

As a parting shot, look at this steel boat that came into the path of a large ship when the two suckers sailing her were asleep. It sailed to port jury rigged - imagine yourself if this boat was built of any other material other than steel - maybe aluminum had a slight change but alu welding is suspect when severe damage is done.

 

steel

I have more tests . Drive a steel nail into a piece of wood. Now drive a wooden nail into a piece of steel.Chop a piece of wood or fibreglas with a steel pickaxe. Now chop a piece of steel or fibreglass with a wooden pickaxe. Tie a knot in a piece of steel wire. Now tie a knot in a wooden toothpick.
Ask your advisors how many steel boatrs they have maintained and, or cruised in for over a ten year period. Base your assesment of the value of their advice on their experience.
Read Jimmy Cornel's book "Modern Ocean Cruising" , and read the part about how many experienced circumnavigators would choose metal for their next boat.
My current steel boat is 24 years old , has crossed the Pacific many times and has never been sandblasted. The original paint job is as good as the day I put it on.
If you can see the weld pattern thru the paint , the paint is not thick enough , a common mistake on steel boats. I put 30 gallons of epoxy on my 31 footer. My maintenance amounts to about an hour or two a year.
Bare steel has nothing to do with the rate of corrosion on a well epoxied piece of steel. Bare wood doesn't do so well either, in teredo country.
Steel boat owners don't worry about collisions with whales or cargo containers
One of my 36 footers pounded across 300 yards of Fijian coral reef in a huge swell with minimal damage., One also collided with a freighter in Gibralter in peasoup fog with minimal dammage . One pounded on a Baja beach in 8 ft swells for 16 days, and was dragged off in 8 ft swells, being lifted 8 ft and dropped on the hard sand every wave for 1/4 mile ,with minimal damage . Moitessier had a photo of a sistership to his Joshua that had been T-boned by a 35,000 ton freighter without leaking a drop. You could see the imprint of the freighters bow amidships. How would a wood or fibreglass boat fare in such a collision.For a boat in full time use, a steel boat would have far less maintenance than a fibreglas or wood boat. Things that are welded down, don't work loose or leak.Steel is the ultimate choice for offshore cruising. Nothing else comes remotely close, for peace of mind on a dark night sailing at hull speed with family aboard.
A rifle (303 British) that will shoot thru 23 inches of douglass fir will barely squeak thru 3/8th inch mild steel.Impact is impact, like sharp rocks. 3/8th steel is 15 lbs a sq ft. 23 inch douglass fir is 69 lbs a square ft.
But for abysmaly dense comments by people who know nothing about the strengths of metal yachts , there would be far more of them out cruising. As more people gain offshore cruising experience , far more offshore boats are being made of steel. Roughly 200 of my designs , almost all 36 footers have been built.Their ability to outsail many stock fibreglas boats which are considered fast , in the same size range, dispels the misconception that they are slow , or too heavy. Many steel boats in the 36 foot range commonly outsail fibreglas boats in the same size range.
Brent Swain

 

Im confused, are you are saying that steel is Ok or not?

 

I have a small knowledge about steel as I've worked in the designs teams of the French Navy -warships are generally in steel...-and also in the French Navy shipyards, building, transforming, repairing steel boats.

Also worked polyester as some mine hunters were made in sandwich, a wood composite mine hunter able to withstand a mine explosion, aluminium on fast patrol boats, and even ferrocement.

I've designed and made professional fishing boats in plywood and classic wood and participated as structural consultant in the design of sailing racing boats mainly 60 feet trimarans, and some cruising multihull.

I recognize that my experience in design of cruising sail monohulls is nihil. But I have some idea about the pros and cons of a good range of materials from raw wood to carbon cooked in nitrogen. Each material has its range of boat size, all (except ferrocement) are rather good when well used, all have a correct durability when well made and mantained, none of then is eternal, all have inconveniences.

I'm not an addict of a material, if one day it's proved that rice paper cigarette glued with bat ***** is a good boatbuilding material I'll use it, but I have after 38 years some opinions, that happily I share with myself, about what material is most convenient in some situations.

And one of these opinions is because of weight, added furthermore by the weight and cost of insulation, and maintenance issues, steel is not the optimal material for small boat.

As more I'm not a lover of heavy displacement sailing monohull (but I do not despise those who love them) and even sailing monohulls because the idea of needing a ballast to stay upright bothers me. Personal idiosyncrasy of someone who spent years in the search oh the best efficiency.

About speed, the lone judge is a race with able people on the boats, or constant reliable logs. I have a light doubt that a 36 feet heavy displacement monohull in steel would beat in a Pacific crossing a 36 feet cruising sail boat in polyester made by Jeanneau or Beneteau, the equips having same competence and wish to sail at the optimal speed.

An example of proof of speed is a circumnavigation by the three caps single handed; done in 57 days 13 hours 34 minutes et 6 seconds (mean speed of 19.09 knots) proves beyond discussion that the skipper is good, that the design/building team knew their jobs as the boat is seaworthy, fast and rather easy to sail, and that the construction is light using at the best the concept of maximal inertia at least weight with good reliability ( 26,373 nautical miles full speed in any sea condition; how many boats are able to do that with nothing broken?) .

 

Wynand....

I don't have a dog in this fight....just trying to keep facts straight.

I think the results of that particular storm say more about the role of luck in mass beachings, (exactly were you are and who lands on top of you) than superior construction. Best to stay off the beach. The folks who cut and ran out to sea as soon as the wind came up where fine though tired after a rough night.

I own two wooden boats, I'm happy with them, and comfortable with what could happen in a bad situation. I like wood, I like working with it, I like looking at it. I have built boats of metal and fiberglass, no fun for me. I have designed boats in all materials except cement and I would do one of those under the right circumstances. Horses for courses.

 

Im in total agreement with you Tad - best to stay out of harms ways if one can....

The best material for a boat in my view is cold molded strip plywood; it is light, stiff and "feels" right. But then again, I'm am only a humble boilermaker by trade and hence my religion in steel.
For coastal cruising I think I would love to have a cold molded strip plywood boat for myself, but for serious offshore sailing, steel be my choice period. In fact, busy building a 6m GRP daysailer for myself

 

How does one insulate a wooden boat to the degree of an inch of sprayfoam, without creating a rot factory? I remember living on my first boat under a wooden deck ,seeing the ice forming on it overnight then changing to condensation and raining down, so I know that wood is a piss poor insulator compared to foam over steel. I cruise full time year round in British Columbia, so I have decades of experience in living aboard in cold weather.I wouldn't want to do it in an uninsulated wooden boat. That would be torture. Deck leaks are inevitable, eventually, on a wooden boat. Even the best of boatbuilding perfectionists I've known have not been able to keep decks from leaking eventually.
I find that steel is the ultimate material for offshore or full time cruising and I wouldn't go to sea in anyhting else. That, based on 35 years and 9 Pacific crossings as well as cruising 11 months a year since my mid 20's.Wynand's picture says it all when it comes to worry free offshore cruising.
Brent

 

The good boat is the boat that fits to your requisites and makes you happy.

As I've written none material is intrinsically superior to another, all depends on their use.

Simply some claims make me angry as they are not obviously true, two examples:

- Heavy displacement sail boats are fast: a common claim found in the propaganda of many yacht designers. No, they are slow, it's a measurable fact. So I would be happy to read "my boats are not fast as they are not made for speed, but they are comfortable, spacious, easy going and rather strong." So the customer makes his choice on true facts and his personal tastes.

- You can make your heavy displacement boat with little money and short time. A claim found with too many guys trying to sell plans to home builders.
I hate that, these "designers" are responsible of the ruin of the life of many people.

All boats are expensive, all boats need a lot of work, but heavy boats a more expensive as you pay, in common boatbuilding materials, a price per pound. Worst, most of these plans sold by these snake oil sellers are obsolete if not frankly "pieces of ****".

We can find other improbable claims like this: the catamaran I have designed: 40 feet, 8 metric tons is able of 35 knots without effort. And so on.

I'll conclude writing again: The good boat is the boat that fits to your requisites and makes you happy.

 

Brett, in very cold climates all boats will need insulation. Your experience with wooden boats seem limited to very old worn out ones... The humidity trapped behind an insulation can also "rot" a steel deck, in Canada as I've seen pro fishermen favor aluminium as this material is produced in this country at competitive prices.

That I call wood is in fact a composite wood/epoxy/fibers. And I've never seen a double ply scarffed with 2 layers of fiberglass deck leak a drop of water. It's a monocoque structure.

It's perfectly possible to insulate a wood epoxy boat but in this case it's better engineering to include the insulation in the structure in the form of a 2 inch honeycomb filled of foam faced by plywood and covered by fiberglass outside. It is very efficient in several ways; stiffness, practically all further structure is not needed except at the openings or hardware attachments, thermal and phonic insulation with no thermal or phonic bridges, work needed and price.

A well treated classic wood boat can be also insulated. It needs just precautions.

About shooting and rifles, I think I have some experience on the subject of armor plating, although it wasn't my domain. I do not see the interest of the resistance to big calibre bullets on a yacht, unless you want absolutely sail in Somalia waters, in this case it's better to take a warship. That proofs nothing about the general stiffness of a boat, it's the tank syndrome. But now even tanks are using fiberglass/kevlar armors as steel is so easy to perforate with uranium or "plasma" bullets. I have always found funny in a certain way that a 10 millions bucks tank can be destroyed by a barefoot guy with a good 5,000 bucks bazooka, or a destroyer be badly damaged by a missile fired from a training plane...

 

All boats are a pain in the arse and maybe I should'nt bother with them at all.

A consideration that crosses my mind at least once a day.

Some one on the Forum used to say "If its got ****, wheels, or a transom its gonna be trouble".

 

Frosty you said words of wisdom.
I try to apply everyday this precept ; I have no boat, but I use those of my acquaintances, leaving to them the worries of maintenance and other wallet eaters, I have no car as we a have here good cheap taxis and buses and in case of absolute necessity I rent, but I'm faulty about the *******, I'm married. I'll try to improve. Nobody's perfect.

 

Sounds like Ilan has hope for recovery, good on ya mate!

 

Er.. um ..but...cough politely

Dont you think there is far more to speed under sail than the displacment length ratio?

All the 'fast' sailboats I have sailed on operate in a semi-planing mode which is a different ballgame.

For the rest it's always how much sail the boat can spread and how it stands up to its canvas all else being equal.

 

For sure, there are several factors, from hull shape, hydro of appendices, to efficiency of the sail plan. And the combination of all there factors must be harmonious like in good music, let's say the BVW 1043 of JS Bach played by Menuhin.

But the most obvious is displacement and ratio of ballast.

Heavy displacement boats are expensive: a boat costs roughly by pound in "common" materials even if you try to lower the price with cheap and sometimes substandard materials, the work needed is related to the quantity of materials, not their price. And a heavy boat means bigger and costlier hardware.

Slow because of physics, a short heavy boat is limited in speed as the wave is making is big, and the expense of energy to move it will be out of the possibilities of the sail plan beyond a few knots.

ULDB are not good for comfortable cruising and some amount of inertia is needed to have a smooth motion, but a displacement kept reasonable with a good building method is a good compromise: good ratio of ballast around 40-50 %, good capacities of tanks (water and fuel) and moderate surface sails easier to trim by a small crew, all that helped by a decent design of the hull will be give decent speeds and more important that top speed; good average speeds without struggle. A lot of yachts drawn by able designers meet these requirements.

So, when I read the claims of some "designers" of terrifying things with overbuilt scantlings, ratios of ballast of 25 %, fuel tank of 30 liters (8 gallons!), 100 gallons of water (if you are five on the boat, you'll have to brush your teeth with sea water after a few days), all that packed for example on a on 35000 pounds 43 feet thing, I become

To go faster the simplest way is the multihull kept light, but multihulls are a bit expensive because of the hulls surfaces involved. However, if you're on the spartan side, you can get a good catamaran with simple techniques at a reasonable price. It will be comfortable at sea (but not spacious) and under tropics with a good tent very pleasant at the mooring. A such boat of around 40-45 feet is able of 240 miles/day with no effort.

By my personal standards monohulls are too slow, but it's personal taste.