Old Quarter Tonners -Magic Bus

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by steveo-nz, Oct 5, 2008.

  1. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Threequarter Ton Drakkar and Quarter Ton Protis.
     

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  2. salkbj
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    salkbj Junior Member

    Paul B, thank you for OTC-88!

    In the third jpg from Gary Baigent there is a picture of "Jamaica". One of many FMN 1/2-tonners that didn't quite make it (dismasting in HTC-83) to the absolute top.

    Ar Bigouden, in the 4th jpg, represent very well the French response when the lightweight door was shut 1979. Super-short LBG (thus allowing a low DSPL) combined with a super-long aft overhang. For Ar Bigouden over 2m(6'). The feat was to make those overhangs really contribute to the waterline lenght.

    Of course, 1981 the overhang door was shut by introducing a limit on AGO/Y (aft overhang) to 15% of LBG.
    The French responded by, aside from large depth station measurements, going down the minimum drag route taking whatever sail area they could get. Lacydon Protis(Fauroux) , winner QTC-81, (see jpg in Gary Baigent "second" entry) was the first of this breed. Briand and Andrieu would perfect it in the 1/2-ton class in the coming years. The concept (superior heavy weather, reaching, boats) fitted the commercial interest in the Figaro solo racing (Bay of Biscayne) being a major force in new boat commissioning.
     
  3. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Quarter Ton, Japan.
     

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  4. salkbj
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    salkbj Junior Member

    Magician V (winner QTC-78 with largely US crew) is always attributed a somewhat anonymous Yamaha Design Group.
    Ichiro Yokoyama was the man behind the design. He would later become a principal designer for the Nippon AC challenge.

    She had two sisters, "Shoun A", 9th, and the other with an unknown name retiring after a collision.
     
  5. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Great stuff, all.

    My scanner's stuffed but I have articles on the '88 OTC (including one I commissioned and modified) in the archives if any particular details are needed.

    I assume the Drakkar pictured is an earlier one; Drakker Noir was the long-overhang fractional wasn't it? The Drakkar pictured looks like a Peterson or something?
     
  6. salkbj
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    salkbj Junior Member

    Gary, if you can recall which issue of the Bateaux magazine the picture is from I can probably dig it up. I have no record (yet) of a "Drakkar" other than the Joubert-77 with the long-overhang, except for a 1/2-tonner from the 60's ;-) !?
     
  7. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    On my current spreadsheet I do have Yokoyama-san as the actual designer of the Yamaha QT. This info was posted earlier on this thread by Roy Cundiff, the skipper of the Magician V.

    There was a sister called Magician VI that also participated. I believe that is the Magician that is shown in the photos Gary posted.
     
  8. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    That write up of MBD shows the interesting numbers she had for a MT. In fact, she is almost 2 feet longer than the initial Farr World Champion QT!

    The minis here in the USA were probably sailed more often under MORC than under IOR level rating. Then in '79 MORC introduced the "4Q" rule. That is Rule version 4, after trials from A to B to C..until they tried the last one that gave the results they wanted, Q.

    As you can see from the attached article from the class newsletter (using the L22 sailplan as the basis) this killed the boats with extreme fractional rigs (ratings jumping over a foot for some). So from then on probably 90+% of all MORC boats had masthead rigs (or very near masthead fractionals like 15/16ths).

    So the poor old mini tonners were done in for level rating racing by the bigger, more rule pushing designs like MBD and the Peterson Great White. Then they were done in for MORC racing by the rule change. So in one year your nice little production boat (like the L22) that could be very competitive under two measurement rules was no longer competitive in either.
     

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  9. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    I think the Technical Committee did a good thing by limiting OHA. That was really getting too far out there.

    I recall reading a quote from Briand in discussing his QT winner. He said something about being able to get a good amount of L when traded off against sail area, which he thought was too expensive under the rule. His quote was something about trading the length for "the area of his shirt".

    Of course his boats were not only good in the heavy air. Passion2 was really quick in the light stuff here in SoCal, even after a couple of years when newer OTs (30.55) came on the scene. Especially against the JN 40s (younger sisters to Diva) the old Briand was still very fast in the light.
     
  10. salkbj
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    salkbj Junior Member

    Interesting! So "Passion 2" ended up in California. Do you remember which year she showed up?
    I've lost track of her after the Sardinia Cup-84 where she ended mid-fleet 22/48 after tearing up the mainsail in the long offshore race but also winning one inshore race.

    Those JN40's you mention. Where they built in America? I have a note; 5 JN 1-tonners taking part in SORC-85. One named "Patriot", the best, 8th in class E.
    In Europe, 3 Joubert/Nivelt "true" 1-tonners where built on the back of "Diva" (which ended up in Sweden).
    "Clin d'OEil'85"(84), "Espace Du Desir"(85) and the Spanish "Illes Balears"(85). Neither where to repeat the success of "Diva".
     
  11. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    I'm sure she was here in '85, and as far as I know she is still here, sitting pretty much unused in Newport Beach last I heard.


    The JN 40s were built in two places, one in Canada (Wiggers) and the other was Lager (on the US East Coast?).

    Patriot was sailed at the circuit by Dave Ullman. I have photos of her sitting out of the water at the '85 SORC. I sailed on the boat during Long Beach Race Week in either '85 or '86. Then a couple of years later one of my mentors Jerry Montgomery bought her and I did some races with him. Today she lives in a slip at my yacht club. Jerry still races her from time to time.

    In 1986 we were sailing our little 30 foot MORC boat in an IOR regatta. Our boat was designed to also rate 30.5 under IOR. The JN boats (there were about 4 of them out here) were much faster than we were upwind, but downwind we were faster than they were. They had a really low SHR, less than 14.5 as I recall.

    Over the years we also had the Davidson Pendragon (30.55), an X1T, a couple of Farrs, a Frers (with a big rig, so higher than 30.5), the Andrews that beat Diva in class at the SORC and was 2nd OA behind Diva (Allegiance), a masthead Andrews (IMPACT, overall probably the fastest of them all in SoCal, but also over the 30.55 limit), a Dubois (very fast in the light) and others. So for about 3 years there was a good amount of interest in this class here.
     
  12. Richard 4073
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    Richard 4073 Junior Member

    I always thought the Briand boats of the 1980s were quite sweet looking boats, with a nice turn of sheer up for'ard and curved transom. I have an article on the 1983 Half Ton Cup which Free Lance won, Briand commented that "There are two ways to design a boat. One is to bump the measurement points to gain as much sail area as possible and the other, which I used for Free Lance, is to define how big a sail area is needed and then draw a clean and fast boat." I'll scan and post it tonight. It includes a photo of the Threequarter ton champion Bottadritta, a FMN design which looks to take the other approach, with a pretty tortured shape around AGS.
     
  13. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    Help Fill in the Gaps

    OK, some good expertise here.

    On my spreadsheet I am missing the following info. Who can help fill in the gaps?

    QT Cup
    1971 Tequila (Who was designer?)
    1983 ????
    1990 Winner was Ave. Who designed it?
    1992 Jonathan VI Who designed it?


    3/4 Ton Cup

    1987 ????
    1993 ????
    1994 ????


    One Ton

    1982 ????



    2 Ton

    1977 ????
    1978 ????
    1980 ????
     
  14. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    There were two Drakkars, both 3/4 Ton - and Drakkar Noir was in '77 cup. I think the first was a couple of years earlier (looks like a Berret or Joubert, don't think there were many Peterson's built in France during that period). I'll dig around in my stuff to verify if this is correct.
     

  15. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Some more from Bateaux and Neptune Nautisme.
     

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