Ok This is the boat

Thanks Par!

It wont be easy, but i am 100% sure that it's do-able' , long as
I have the RIGHT people giving advice. That's the reason i'm here now,
too find those people, that i can trust for suggestions. My main
goal it too build it right first off, and strong.
Perfect would be, having someone that has more experiance
helping with the build. But i may have too go at it alone. It seems
in this day-n-age' people want the easy way. Too bad, they never
get the chance too walk down the dock, look over their shoulder
and see something they built with pride.

I plan on finding someway too learn the basics of boat building (free labor)
I plan on working at a sail loft (for free) too learn
I plan on learning sand, bronze casting
I will need too get wood soon, and make a kiln too dry it.

If i go at it alone i will

Buy the wood soon, and make a storage/kiln too put it in.
This year, i will donate free labor too a local (md) sail loft
I will donate time too a wood boat building shop (2 days a week or full time for peanuts)
Take a class on bronze casting
Study, chat, I already have a spot starting in the spring, helping on the rigging
of a classic boat.

Then next spring i will be building the boat full time for 8 months.


Par,

In your view, what is the best planking material
for warm water use. I will keep the bottom fresh with paint?

 

I have cryed myself too sleep many of nights, wishing i had enough money
too build a George B. designed seahorse 38'2 with a sail assist rig!
Thanks for reminding me, just when i got over it too......!
But your advice is solid, and his designs are too!
I have his book high on the buy list. Thanks

 

There is no "best" planking material, just ones you're more comfortable with, across several thought processes. For example, sweet, vertical grain, knot free white pine may be your desire, but what if you can't find any or afford the cost. Substitutions will be a common theme in this build, partly because the materials list is quite dated and many aren't available any more, but also because others may be more expensive or of questionable quality then in Billy's ( the designer of your boat) day.

Working around marinas that specialize in wooden boat repair or construction helps tremendously, so would hanging out at a sail loft, though their scope will surround rigging and sail making. Sail making is difficult work, requiring considerable skill and something that I recommend the novice just trust me on, do themselves a favor and purchase a fine set, from a skilled craftsman.

Study your plans, literally until you know every square inch of her. Break down the materials list into lots that can be purchased as a unit (dimensional SYP, dimensional hardwoods, plywood, staging, deadwood timbers, etc.) so you can get the best deals. Plan out your building area, which will include a shelter, places for tools, material storage, electricity, maybe running water, a toilet is nice if you're far from facilities. Check on the need for building permits, which are often necessary in urban locations. Are you friendly with the folks next door, etc.

Enthusiasm and planning is the key to success. Don't set a time table for completion, you'll never meet it. One of the guaranties in projects of this scale is you'll have set backs, back orders, screw up (count on lots of these) and days when your thumb is just too sore, from the hammer you bashed it with the previous day, to do any real work. Have a first aid kit near the boat on the building site (don't ask how I know this) and if working alone, let someone know your at the building site, so they can call the next of kin. No kidding, you wouldn't be the first that fell off a scaffold or half built boat, breaking both legs or worse. I've done it, but have always been lucky enough to have someone around or been able to crawl to a phone. I did have to drive myself to the emergency room once with a broken leg when a rudder fell on it (okay, it was a big *** rudder). I had a big block Camaro with a competition clutch, which required about 50 pounds to hold it to the floor and my left leg was unusable.

You're in the planning and setup stages right now, so line up your ducks, square away a building site and assemble materials.

Learn about boat building from books (pick the method you'll be using) and from the old timers down at the local yard. Steward's "Boatbuilding Manual" and Chapelle's "Boatbuilding: a Complete Handbook . . ." would make a good start for your soon to grow library.

When you finish your cutter (it'll be more then a year, trust me) you'll have skills and experience that can take you literally around the world, if you're willing to work. If someone asks for a resume, show them the boat, they'll probably hire you on the spot.

 

Thanks again for your solid advise! I have the building site already, so that wont be a problem.
I do think i'm leaning towards glassing the outside/inside of the boat 100%.
I know it will cost more that way. But with this,
I can use a good wood, seasoned, but not rare exotic stuff.
It will cost more in the long run for sure in added epoxy/glass $$$. I do have some experiance in resin infusion/bagging.
And this might give me a world class finish if done right. I have even thought about using S glass, lighter, stronger, and
would give me a very good result if i bag the hull. But this is getting way ahead of myself now.
Where im at now:

Waiting for study plans too arrive
looking at wood for the build. ( i need too get it here, and inside a kiln
of some design, so when i'm ready too start its a True 6%). I understand
i need very well seasoned wood if i'm going too glass it up. I also understand
that all lumber from the yards is seasoned well! . In other words, ill buy
good dry wood, and season it myself better...
I posted in the employment section offering almost free labor in trade
for building instruction, Maybe someone could use some cheap labor for a few
months.
I'm going too be searching around for a DEAL on a 6-8 hp Diesel.
Ill take your advice on buying the sails.
I also would be in the market for about 55 gallons of west system
Still looking for 2 others (3??) too work on this full time starting winter 08'
And thanks for the great idea about the work, i never thought of that.
If i do get too the traveling, my boat would be a huge help in finding temp. work, Say 3-5 months too load up on $$$. Thanks again for your time.
I'm sure one day, we can drink one or two on her deck when i hit the Fl area.
Well just make sure there aren't 4 of us. That would be too hippy!

 

Starfish, the build method on that boat doesn't like 'glass sheathings. You could in fact shorten the life of the planking, not increase it. Wooden laminates need to be thin, no more then an inch per layer and preferably less (my max is 3/4"). Other wise the wood has sufficient enough mass to move considerably under the sheathing (especially hardwoods), in the event of a modest breach (you'll get this in spite of the best care). This will eventually "sheer" the sheath and trap moisture between the plastic skin and the wood.

Trust me, you don't want to make changes unless you have to, such as using plywood for a bulkhead instead of a tongue and groove panel (for example). As a novice builder and an even more novice engineer, you must consider what you change very carefully, as the ramifications of a seemly simple change or substitution may not be apparent at first. You don't want to learn the hard way about this, when you're farther from shore then you can swim back to.

You don't need much epoxy for this build and could skip it complety if you wanted. It could be used as a glue, which will be fine.

A kiln is only necessary for unseasoned timber. Wood, all my itself will adopt a natural balance with the environment it's in. If cut into dimensional stock (2x4's, etc.) it will dry to around 15% pretty quickly (depending on environment) which is fine for your uses. A solar kiln is what I use. I cut lumber from my own property, which can save substantially. I then rough saw it into usable sizes then take it to the solar kiln, which is a very simple Greenhouse sort of thing with a ventilation fan and thermostat. I can dry lumber very quickly with it, though not as quick as the professionals, at a slow enough rate that I can minimize checks and other distortions from happening.

Your 9 ton cutter only needs about 10 HP to get to hull speed (7 knots), but you'll have little reserve to punch through chop, contrary currents and ill wind. Consider a 15 HP. A know of a few outfits that are making small diesels, some air cooled, under 5 grand new, which may offer a more home built drive train then a standard marine setup, with big savings.

The study plans aren't going to tell you much more then you already know. Is there specific reason(s) you've selected this rather burdened though pretty yacht to build?

 

Thanks again for your ideas

I will just stay away from sheathing then, and save money on all that west systems!
Ill just spend money on a good bottom paint.
if i can find a reliable 10-15 hp motor for 5k im happy as a clam!
Why i picked this one.....

I have looked at all kinds of boats.
Duck versions
Hans Christian
Swan
Rhodes
Pacific Seacraft
ect ect

But once i saw this boat, i knew it was it.
No other reason, this is the one,
kinda like the first time i saw (10) Miss Bo' D!
i knew i had too have it.

 

Could someone explain this too me, Its a reefing bow spirit,
And why its better then a standard...
Also, what type of sailing situation would require its use.


"A span shackle holds the spar against the side of the squared-off stem head, while the heel slips through between the bitts. The cranse iron on the end of the bowsprit is on the centerline of the ship; but the spar is splayed. The advantage of this arrangement is that the bowsprit can be reefed, hauled inboard. Several slots cut through the spar and fitted with a fid permit it to be reefed at varying lengths from the stem. You will bless a reefing bowsprit, and a reefing topmast, too, the day your cruising brings you in company with some mighty windstorm"

In this pic, you can see how it comes into the ship if you look close.

 

For a more appropriate word try "inspired" - you're planning on doing what so many here (including yours truely) would love to do, but know that they never will.

So long as you are aware you could fail, have some contigency plans, and don't hoc yourself up to the eyeballs - go for it. If you don't do it now in 10 years time you'll be whinging on forums like this one

My advice, if you want advice, don't ask other people who want to do the same as you - ask someone who has already done it. don't know where you might find them, but guaranteed if you have a nutty idea, someone else has already tried it.

Good luck, and send us some postcards.

 

Star, you know I'm not going to dissuade you, but some basic facts from someone who has several large builds under his belt.

The average back yard builder will build a few cubic feet of displacement per day, a skilled craftsman, several per day. Meaning you're looking at many thousands of hours of construction time. My last great project was a 48' ketch, which I have several years into and over 10,000 hours and it wasn't my first picnic.

The savings you may think you'll have over a similarly sized production yacht is over stated. In reality, you'll be hard pressed to match the cost of a similar class production yacht. with this in mind, $150,000 to $350,000 wouldn't be unreasonable for this vessel (well fitted and dressed). You may bring her in under 100 grand, but you'd have to really scrape materials and equipment together carefully.

The logic is quite simple, you don't have the purchasing power of a large company. You'll likely buy things at or near retail without any discounts for volume. Now, you can save with used equipment and reclaimed building materials, though it usually increases the building and installation efforts.

Considering your lack of sailing and building experience, it might be wise to find a way onto friends boats, take a job with a marina to get a feel for vendors and manufactures for the things you'll need, possibly making connections though those outfits, to make purchases in the future, but with the credit and pricing of a marina. You have much to absorb before you lay down a keel.

You may find that after some experience, this boat, though having a soft spot forever in your heart, isn't as well suited to you as you once thought.

To answer your question about a reefing sprit, it's one that can be hauled inboard or hiked up, so the on deck length is shortened (you usually pay slip fees based on over all length, which includes the sprit). In a storm, you also may want to bring it aboard to centralize the load (decrease the pitching moment). This requires a healthy crew and some daring work on the foredeck, in less then ideal conditions typically.

The housing topmast is the old fashioned way of making a long pole. It's called "fiddled" and an unnecessary contrivance by modern standards. A "pole" mast is far superior, easy to make, handle, is lighter and easier to rig. There's no practical reason to carry one (a fiddled top), unless you want to conduct sailing lessons for 19th century technology. Housing a topmast also is dangerous work, again working in lousy conditions.

I'm not trying to talk you out of anything, just hoping you'll get some rides on sloops, cutters and other boats, plus work on your library, before you plop down hard earned money on something you're really not experienced enough to decide on yet. I'm sure you'll build something someday, maybe even this boat, but walking before running is generally the best course to steer.

 

Its good to see the realism starting to surface.

The very best start for a project like this, is to build the traditionally constructed tender you are going to need for this finished yacht.

What you learn on that smaller job will provide a great deal of assistance and confidence for the larger project

I am sure Par can point you at a suitable design.

 

Sounds like a good idea, Ill go look at some of The Atkins plans
for a tow along. Thanks

 

Starfish, this is the usually route to a substantial build, smaller, then larger then larger, etc.

A dinghy is a wise idea, especially considering her draft, though your 29' cutter has limited deck space for one. The usually place for one on this kind of yacht (Colin Archer type) is on the side deck next to the main cabin, so it'll have to be narrow or stowed on it's side in chocks.

I have plans for tenders of this size as well as the literally thousands of others available for your almost 29' yacht. It can be deployed and retrieved with tackle off the main boom and should be fitting of the fine workmanship I'm sure you'll use in the mother vessel.

Even though this seems a fairly large boat, she's actually on the small side, with about 5' 8" of headroom under the cabin roof beams, which isn't much, particularly if women are involved in the living arrangements, who seem to more picky about these sort of things. In spite of the fact that I and all the sailors I know, prefer to eat while seated and sleep while lying down, healthy headroom can be a deal killer for a lot of woman folk.

 

Well,
I like short women with a petite build!
So i guess ill have too find one that fits the boat!
Joking' I'm tall and thin, but i really will deal with the low headroom.
If i need too throw a dance party, i'll do it top sides! When I worked in the back country WY, (winds) I lived in a tent for 7 days out of 10 for 2 months.
Thats why i feel this boat has a huge cabin! LOL!
I agree 100% sit down/sleep down.
As for your plans, i can buy one, suggest too me what would best fit, and ill build it. I would like something close too the building style of Atkins though, the idea is too learn the basics that apply too building the For An Aft'. I'll attach a few pics i found that show the deck/cabin. It looks too have wide decks too me.
Thanks again.

 

How about this one, a fine form, with good capacity, that rows, tows and sails well. Carvel, lapstrake, strip plank or molded construction. It's patterned after the sweet Lawton yacht tenders, common at the turn of the 19th to 20th centuries.

Email me if you're interested.

 

hi there starfish...
very interested with your idea..
i am also a beginner in the wooden boat building, if you build atkin boat here in Indonesia it will cost half of your budget ( 30 K US ) only for the hull and its TEAK.
maybe you interesting building it here in Indonesia, and then send it by container.
recently we ( me and a European Boat Builder ) started to built 9.6 m Traditional Offshore Sailing Vessel ( Francois Vivier design ). carvel plank - sawn frame, All TEAK.

you can see the spec:
http://www.pusatkelautan.its.ac.id//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=42

Good Luck with your idea.