Ok complete change of plan

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Boston, May 4, 2010.

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  1. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    I think the design phase you went through was useful and instructive, Boston. While it may not have ended in a finished design, it certainly focused your mind on what you wanted and needed, and what compromises need to be made to meet your goals.

    Half a minute on the soap box here: 'compromise' gets a lot of bad press, as though it means 'settling for less than you wanted." But compromise is really the art of prioritizing. It's a process of sorting out the essentials vs the secondary goals: of identifying what you must have, then seeing what else you can fit in around it without conflict.

    And don't get me wrong; the secondary goals are important too. For example, obviously seaworthiness is essential. That doesn't mean you should throw away any hope of a comfortable ride also, just because it's a secondary goal....what's the point of surviving a voyage, if you're going to be miserable the whole time? Heck, it's easier to stay on land and look up an ex-wife or ex-girlfriend, if you want misery....:D
     
  2. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    lmao
    now that was funny

    actually sea keeping is pretty close to the top of the list, having grown up out on the Cape I have a healthy respect for open water. I really want something that will not rock and roll to much but will come back over for me if I find myself upside down. I want windows that wont blow out and hatches that dont leak ( asking for a miracle there eh ). I am none to keen to sleep in a forward berth as that is where I always got stuck as a kid and other than in port it sucks. Noisy on the hook and has the most motion. I'll take maybe a fold out at midships over a big space forward any day.

    funny thing is what I really want is to do just build something I haven't built before

    I realize it sounds arrogant but people tell me my stuff has a certain wow factor to it, to me its the same old boring stuff. I want a challenge. I dont think its just a mater of building a boat, but building a symmetrical boat. Typically Im aiming for parallel or uniformity, this thing requires mirror images of curved forms. Im sure I can kick its *** but I'm dying to get cracking on it. that and step it up a notch in terms of joinery. I want raised panel galore fox locks and box joints on every post. Looking forward to doing some multiple dove tailing, button hook deck-house ceilings and chauffeured raised panels between the deck beams or maybe some nice beaded planking. I'll follow the weight budget but Im dying to throw everything in the book at something.

    I might do a white oak veneer for the decking but definitely wood, a nice deep red cherry for the deck houses inside and out and a black walnut transom, mast, jolly boat and trim. Not sure what Im building but I want to build the living **** out of something.

    Im bored and I have a lot of tools and left over lumber handy

    engine and trany is about the only things I havn't got covered cause If I build Tads design I really cant use the engine I have
    Ill go minimalistic on the electronics except for the computer
    I would wither and die with out a link up

    Ok Im just rambling at this point
    gotta get some sleep

    cheers
    B
     
  3. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    I hope you will have a good amount of free time, because your suggestion as understanding they are will take a huge amount of time to realize.
    will be quite first class elegant, but since it is a boat, the shape change between each beam. But yes go for it.
    No please, no white oak veneer for a deck. Put solid wood for deck, like a nice pine, but no oak.
    Daniel
     
  4. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    Yellow Cedar is not intended as an offshore cruiser....she is intended as a coastal cruiser. I would not build her with the intention of cruising the Aleutian Islands, but the Channel Islands or the West Indies would be just fine.

    She is also not a self-righting lifeboat....

    Boston, hundreds of posts ago you inquired whether the commuter was suitable for offshore cruising and I said uh-uh....so here we are back again. No...lightly built coastal cruisers are not intended for open ocean work....

    Heavy offshore cruisers look like this....

    38halibutschooner.jpg

    42Wanderer.jpg
     
  5. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    While it sure wont be an offshore vessel, my vote for a commuter with style is still STROLLER ,
    [
    Just love the bow cockpit and 4 ft wide couch on the after deck.

    And the STYLE!!

    FF
     

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  6. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    TAD,

    the first one yes,

    the other one, NO


    Regards
    Richard
     
  7. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    I remember that conversation Tad

    I like the idea of sneaking upriver so shallow draft is a plus, I realize that shallow draft and open water don't seem to go together but Im a bit fuzzy on what the extent of those limitations are

    thats one reason I was trying to design my own so I could find that balance between look and use. Wasn't working out to well so I changed tack

    Fred that boat has a great look to it but its huge
    got to be 60'

    [​IMG]

    there is something rugged looking about the Atkins design that appeals to me also, maybe its just such a contrast to the elegant look of the commuters. Atkins implies that the boat is "seagoing". How seagoing is seagoing? when I was working guides in the park ( Yellowstone ), elegant lasted about five minutes and after that rugged is the only look that survived, like it or not.
    Had some real city girls that couldn't even pull it off and believe me they tried.
     
  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    It is not only looking rugged.

    I fear TAD might not reply on the question comparing both designs.........

    Hmm, I would´nt probably.

    You ask him to compare a lightweight, coastal and inshore performer of state of the art construction, with a hundred years old, heavy, rugged, off coast design.

    How many fridges does your Porsche 911 transport?

    Regards
    Richard
     
  9. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    agreed

    please check your Pm box
     
  10. rasorinc
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    rasorinc Senior Member

    Bos, I've had to make some serious changes to my plans also, due to health and the stupid economic times. However my boat with a 4/12 V bottom and higher freeboard and my plan to handle the engine from the flybridge will allow me to circumnavigate Vancouver Island with a second engine and I have all the comforts of home. Down sizing is not all bad but keep a serious eye on the weather and have a good radio. http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/4777 PS Richard helped me with the design and Frosty assisted with the living unit and Mas suggested a sail but I;m not a sailor man. I am going to buy a new (high thrust kicker engine) a Yamaha. Build your dream no matter what anyone says..................Damn, this rum is good.
     
  11. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    B guess the cider got to me...

    rasor if yer gonna do Vancouver Island you'd better tack on at least a foot of corrugated fiberglass,all the way around,to keep out the waves.
    Other than that,I'd say you're good to go.
     
  12. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    who suggested the Winnebago as a main cabin
    I think they deserve a bit of credit as well

    oh the upper deck was a nice touch to

    oh hey Stan
    there is bound to be a ton of flood repair work down in that area
    should keep you busy for a while
    best of luck
    B

    I'm thrilled to be working again
    ( looks around so to make sure no one is listening )
    now to blow it all on this build
     
  13. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    Great Bear and Yellow Cedar are so close dimensionally and displacement wise that I would say the choice is a styling one......

    Personally I like the work of John Atkin a great deal, Great Bear is a nice example. But I do not favor tiny aft cabins in NW cruisers or in traditional wooden boats. They are difficult to heat and ventilate well, and thus end up as "wet" storage. And a great source of rot and mold. If I was building Great Bear I would extend the deckhouse and have an open cockpit aft of that. No aft cabin but a place on deck to sit comfortably and watch the world go by is required.

    I am also not a fan of deck steped masts with nothing under the butt.

    I believe Great Bear is intended as a coastwise cruiser, she has more flair forward and thus will be slightly drier on deck than Yellow Cedar. Freeboard and beam are similar, as is draft, so (all things being equal) high-angle stability will be very similar though roll damping may be quicker in Great Bear due to the vee bottom. Motion will also be slightly quicker in Great Bear due to the vee (quicker traverse shift of CB).

    For full time living aboard and cruising BC/Alaska I would build something like this....a commuter yacht will be a fish out of water in SE Alaska...this boat will be right at home...
    NWcruiser02.jpg
     
  14. Easy Rider
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: NW Washington State USA

    Easy Rider Senior Member

    Hi all,
    We have one of those Garden designed boats like Mardoll right here in Thorne Bay ..a town of 435 people in SE Alaska. It's in fairly poor shape but I've admired her since I've come here. However I don't like fly bridge boats that have poor visibility from the lower helm or no lower helm at all. And this boat is a poor choice for SE Alaska as visibility is very important due to the high level of floatsam in the water. Otherwise the boat looks great.
    Neither Yellow cedar nor Bear have great visibility but both are almost certainly acceptable. I for one would trade my Willard for Yellow Cedar in a minute .. Iv'e always wanted a longer Willard anyway. And I think Yellow Cedar would do very well in SE waters. You don't need a passagemaker here in SE. If Yellow Cedar were wider or had ballast she'd be better in SE to be sure but she's just fine the way she is. She's a bit too heavily focused on efficiency. I own a boat that burns 1gph and fuel consumption that low is not worth the price. If we can afford these boats in the first place we can surely afford 2 or 3 gph consumption. So in this respect the Bear has an advantage.

    Easy Rider
     

  15. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    well dam

    ok my tastes in boats does not fit my tastes in areas to boat in

    perfect

    since plan A B or C did not work out Im open to suggestion
    anything goes

    hmmm
    ok so I didn't drown before I came to the conclusion the commuter was not going to work
    Im not entirely unhappy with that although there may be several over on the climate thread who might feel otherwise

    Tragic thing is that it sounds like the Atkins is not adequate either. I also really liked the old work boat look of the Atkins

    I have a few drawings I made off the Atkins with the cabin extended aft about five feet and the trunk cabin removed and replaced with a bench seat across the back kinda like Tads design

    thing is it lost a lot of its character

    sorta became dam ugly actually

    oh well
    hit me with your favorite boats for that area
    sail, motor, combination, squirrel cage I'm back to square one I guess

    cheers
    B

    ps if at all possible I prefer long slender and not just sail powered.
     
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