Offshore Sportfishing Motorsailer, innovations & alternatives

Discussion in 'Motorsailers' started by brian eiland, Nov 29, 2006.

  1. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    "Shootout", Offshore Sportfishing

    Bruce Pfund is the technical editor of an excellent publication known as Professional Boatbuilder, http://www.proboat.com/ . He is also an avid sportfisher. He has written many excellent articles on a whole range of boatbuilding subjects both power and sail. Reference some of his work here at this link http://www.bpspecialprojects.com/

    This past June/July ’06, Issue # 101 he wrote an article titled “Shootout”. I’ll just quote the pre-amble text he opened the article with:



    At two recent sportfishing tournaments, the author trolled for details—small but significant finishing touches on (mostly) big custom boats. They represent the sort of technical refinements that may eventually appear on production-built models, even those of modest size.

    "Walking the Harbour Island, Bahamas, docks where the sportfishing yachts in the Custom Boat Shootout had tied up was a fascinating experience. Bring together a few dozen of the Eastern United States’ premier custom boats, their owners, captains, and skilled crews, and there are bound to be refinements of traditional setups, along with innovative new equipment you won’t see at a typical boat show—just yet.

    For the past two years I’ve made the trip from the U.S. mainland to the Bahamas to fish, and to take in what I can of the very exclusive fleet assembled there for the annual tournament. Last year 28 boats from 15 builders were on hand.

    Pleading professional obligations, I dodged washdown and cleanup duties on Unexpected, the 61’ (18.6m) Sonny Briggs I fished with, to wander the docks looking for interesting details specific to these highly evolved craft; some items might eventually appear on other types of boats. Several participating vessels were predictably opulent—although still successful in raising fish— while others were decidedly spartan. Without exception the fleet was specialized for offshore fishing. I tried to stay focused on details that might be relevant to other builders and designers: naturally, I found a couple of boats I just really liked. Here's a selection of what I saw.”




    Obviously this text is enough to make any avid offshore fishing guy want to find and read this article. And while you’re at it you might also look up another article of his from Aug/Sept ‘02, Issue #78, “Sportfishing Boat Layouts”.

    So now that I’ve turned you on to two really good articles, I’m going to digress a bit.

    In the article “Shootout” Bruce reinforces the general need to innovate, and innovation in tower design in particular, by referring back to a pod tower concept designed by the Fla fisherman and builder Jim Smith back early in his career 1959.

    Here is that ‘pod tower’ concept as included in the ProBoat article:



    An Innovative Tower
    The accompanying photo of Boca Jima—a 35’ sportfisherman designed and built by the late Stuart, Florida, builder and fisherman Jim Smith early in his career—ran in the May/June 1987 issue of WoodenBoat magazine. The boat itself was built in 1959, cold-molded of double-diagonal cedar and epoxy, and capable of 44 knots, a speed still impressive today. But it was the innovative aerodynamic styling and functionality of the pod tower concept that remains especially appealing to me. Strangely, Smith’s good idea, which also replaced the conventional port and starboard tower access ladders with an elevator, was not embraced and copied. This tower—a radical departure from existing boats, then and now, might have been a bit too extreme for the sportfishing fraternity.

    According to John Vance, president of Jim Smith Boats, there’s more to the Boca Jima story. “Jim was a real innovator,” he said, “and sometimes looked to Detroit for styling trends. Boca Jima has a hit of a ‘57 Chevy look to it, doesn’t it?”

    “Look closely at the picture. Note that the contours of the tower’s hardtop match the contours of the top of its pod. There’s a crank mechanism that retracts the top so that it sits flush on top of the pod, which reduces drag and protects the pod from the weather. Jim chartered the boat for quite a while. He had a wooden leg from a motorcycle accident; the elevator was a big help to him. But he told me he’d leave the car in the up position so his charterers wouldn’t pester him.”

    “Jim was an early adopter of many things.” Vance continued, “including adhesive bonding. Boca Jim’s tower was braced by four aluminum sailboat masts, with flanges welded at their bases. Jim bonded the flanges to the deck and cabintop with whatever the equivalent of (3M) 52OO was in those days, using just a few screws to hold each flange in place. Everyone thought he was nuts. When the boat sold, the new owners tried to remove the tower so that it could be bolted down more conventionally. They tore off plywood trying.”




    Kind of radical, huh? (to be cont…)
     

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  2. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Reply to PBB 'Shootout" Article

    So upon seeing Jim Smith’s radical tower and a few other items in Bruce Pfund’s article ‘Shootout’, I just couldn’t resist the temptation to write a ‘letter to the editor’. I tried to write it with a little ‘tongue-in-cheek’ humor as I really respect Bruce’s work.

    I was quite surprised when I found out the letter was published in the most recent issue PBB No 103, Oct/Nov
    ________________________________________________

    Ltr to the Editor of Professional BoatBuilder

    Just looked thru Bruce Pfund’s latest article “Shootout” in PBB No 101, Jun/Jul ‘06. I thought I would drop you a short note to be taken with a little light-hearted ribbing.

    I’ve really enjoyed Bruce’s articles in the past, and particularly took note of one where he detailed the fishing cockpit, PBB No 78 (“Sportfishing Boat Layout”). I hope to make use of some of those insightful details when I finally find a brave client to really push the boundaries of a new gamefisher design: http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-yachting-discussion/1548-gamefishing-sail-under-sail-power.html



    In “Shootout” Bruce wrote, “…deviations from the day’s norm are small. Will anyone dare to break away from the now traditional tuna tower and try a single, aerodynamically efficient, unstayed mast with an aero-style crow’s nest…” Well I guess you might say I’ve taken that 'crow’s nest-on-a-composite-mast’ challenge to the EXTREME. I’ve extended that mast, and added a sailing rig. I need to expand the size of my crow’s nest a bit more, and it wouldn’t necessarily have to be located as far up the mast. I do like the idea of the ‘elevator’ as on Jim Smith’s Boca Jima. He was quite an innovator wasn’t he.

    Interesting that Smith did not feel the need for the additional flybridge helm as well. I had included this additional helm on my deckhouse roof since the crow’s nest was not sufficiently expansive in my original drawings. I had also considered exploring a sort of fold-away, pop-up, podium type helm station at that roof location. This would provide for good communication between the captain and the fishing cockpit in close fighting situations, and might be rigged to handle the teaser reels also.



    Bruce wrote, “Will 2006 be the year that large low-drag unstayed carbon outriggers appear?” I think being able to clip lines on both my twin backstays and my relatively short unstayed carbon outriggers, and across the whole big beam of this vessel, should make for quite a bait spread without unruly longer riggers.



    The new Volvo IPS prop system might substitute for my belt-driven concept, but lets go up another whole notch and eliminate conventional props and supports altogether. How about adapting the latest Rim-Driven Propeller technologies:
    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/23867-post8.html
    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/technical-discussion/3961-rim-driven-propellers.html

    These propulsion units can be 1) smaller in diameter than their prop counterparts, 2) tucked under the hull closer to the hull bottom, 3) located further forward from the transom, 4) retractable, 5) far less nosey, 6) less susceptible to fouling, 7) serviceable without hauling the vessel, etc. Rim-drives are electrically driven by a magnet component in the rim of the prop, so they would require the latest technologies associated with diesel/electric propulsion. Carbon blades in the rim-drives combined with low speed, hi-torque electric drive would produce phenomenal maneuverability at slow fighting speeds, and without any reduction/direction gearboxes.

    Plus you would have all of the electricity you could possible want onboard without the extra weight of the usual one or two auxiliary generator units. Set up right this could be a real fuel-sipping offshore fishing machine (much less fuel weight to propel & haul around). The sails could all be electrically furled.



    Bruce mentioned, “within a year or two the first oven-baked, carbon-fiber, pre-preg sportfisherman will arrive on the scene….the quantum leap its presence will represent…” By analogy this 65 gamefishing cat I’m proposing done in all-carbon might find its nearest comparison with the very lt-weight built GunBoat 62 catamaran:
    http://www.deltayachtsbrokerage.com/dyeng/gunboat-en.html
    [B]http://www.gunboat.info/home.html[/B]
    My design will of course be heavier with its significantly greater engine power, and it won’t carry that same sail area to displacement ratio, but it does maintain that slenderness in the hulls and could be a relatively lt-weight carbon build.



    Upon looking at the opening photo of the article down the long line of boats, I noticed that not one of the vessels had a tender onboard (nor chocks for same). These vessels are all ‘dock dwellers’. They would have a hard time spending a night away from the dock, or a few days away from a fuel supply. So rather than refer to them as ‘offshore fishing vessels’, I think they might better be termed ‘tournament fishing vessels’. They are specialized for tournaments, something mine is not.

    I am also developing a specialized RIB tender that can be carried up front, (two in my case), without concern for its being swamped by a big wave over the bow. Tenders become akin to one’s car when you get away from the docks and/or into remote fishing locations.



    Bruce wrote, “The challenge is to innovate while still creating a boat that is not so radically custom, or weird that no one will want to buy it. Or that is so finely tuned for a particular fishery that its efficiency is compromised when chasing other species.” Well I guess I failed the ‘radically custom’ part by a long shot, and it certainly hasn’t been easy coming up with a client to buy one (the mixture of sail with fishing or power has been no easy sell). But then I have never represented this design as a tournament boat. It is clearly a ‘get out there on your own bottom, go-anywhere-in-the-world’ vessel. I would surely think there’d be a few of those really adventurous fishing guys around. My vessel should not appear so radical to them, and its versatile enough to fish on the flats as well as the ocean.

    And it just might fair well in a couple of tournaments…..if they dare let her in.

    Okay I've got my flak jacket on
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2006
  3. yipster
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    yipster designer

    [​IMG]
    at yachtforums i reply'd to that fishing tower
    [​IMG]
    this lifting tub anex crows nest is all too rough and studying a-symetric cathulls, rig planning a better drawing, but yeah sure agree on
     
  4. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Fishing Tower, early 1958

    I was looking thru a few older boating magazines recently and ran across this early fish spotting tower....nostalgia
     

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  5. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    A nice tip picked up from the shoot out article was to have the rail cap raised , a few inches ,so a foot wont slip off a very narrow (6 to 9 in ) side deck .

    FF
     
  6. yipster
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    yipster designer

    we have about an inch board bonded in the deckmold, very good but once almost broke my legs anyway
    on the "dangerous" stuff, here some fishingtowers as i think of them, saw YAW's yesterday again with another fine sample
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    on my ladybird design the mastheads should close but the wings should stay lower and a cord apart
    i now imagin a winglet nest there in the top (and a carterpillar drive on the bottom)
    in another thread it was mentioned a crows nest or tower on a cat is more jerky,
    thats a minus but logical and again depends on hullshapes
     
  7. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Walk-Around

    And I guess you are familiar with the 'walk-around' style that really got hyped by the boat developed for Jimmy Buffett. It has a full recessed walk around 'trough' at the front perimeter of the vessel in lieu of climbing up on a deck. Of course this feature really limited the interior accomodations. But it was geared towards its speciality, fishing.

    Although "Margaritaville" singer-songwriter Jimmy Buffett now lives in Palm Beach, he spent enough years in Key West to develop his own taste in boats. So he approached West Palm Beach-based Rybovich Boats with a concept in mind. The timing, it turns out, was perfect. Rybovich was in the early stages of designing a new 42-foot sport fishing boat, and incorporated Buffett's ideas.

    The resulting design -- revealed at the Fort Lauderdale International Boat Show with a Halloween party and musical performance by Buffett and others -- is the Rybovich Express 42' Walkaround. The new boat combines a completely walkable boat deck, usually found on small boats, with a full interior cabin, usually found on yachts. Buffett's own boat, the first of the line, is already in production. Its name: "Margaritavich."


    Here's a contrast in the two styles, even though they are considerable different size vessels
     

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  8. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Another interesting design from '58

    ...ran across this from an old issue of Rudder mag


    TEXAS WILD CAT
    L.O.A. 53’
    BEAM 12’
    DRAFT 2’8”

    Hubert S. Miller, who designed this sportfisherman, states that when a man goes to sea to fish he usually doesn’t want to do anything else. The important thing is that the boat get him to the fishing grounds fast and be able to cope safely with the conditions there.

    Named the Wild Cat, this yacht is designed to operate from Galveston at a twenty-knot speed to the fishing areas of the Gulf. Displacement is light and the accommodations are rather rough and ready. Under the foredeck is a bunkhouse with four berths. A small galley, which can be used as a single cabin, is in a trunk behind the bridge. The engines are 550 horsepower Kermaths
     

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  9. longliner45
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    may I state ,for every foot higher ,you can see 32 ft deeper and farther, hence the tuna tower,longliner
     
  10. lazeyjack

    lazeyjack Guest

    well not quite right John,
    1.17 times the square root of your height of eye = Distance to the horizon in nautical miles, but also you cant see any further down into the water from up high, once you are at a certain height
    that is if you are on a 100 foot bridge, then your horizon is 11.7 miles, if you can see a tuna at 11.7 miles, well you a re superman:))
     
  11. longliner45
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    then why do they use airplanes to find tuna ,,in Aussy?I know ya cant see to the bottom of the ocean,no matter how high ,but if you are at 5ft above sea level ,,how for can you see to the horizon? I always thought,9miles??so for every ft higher,what is it ,,thanks longliner
     
  12. longliner45
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    lazy please dont tell us ya aint to good at math,,,your over my head here,,,but that is what the old fishheads used to tell me ,how close was I,,,,john
     
  13. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Going Where the Fish Are

    Looking thru the latest June issue of Boat International USA, I found this little dissertation on finding gamefish a bit further offshore than normally considered (attached a scan of "Going Where the Fish Are").

    This issue also contained a nice little section on gamefishing designs, including some history and some new designs. I was a bit disappointed to see most of the new designs basically being 'reruns' of the same old theme that's existed for the past 40 years or so...just bigger and more horsepower. Where is some real innovation?

    ______________________________________________
    Fish The World
    (Gamefishing for Sail Under Sail)

    Why you ask, would we even consider such a notion as big game fishing from a sail powered vessel? As we research through the gamefishing market in general, and some of the more recent articles on new fishing sites, etc., we notice more and more references to potential, prolific hot spots in an array of international and often remote locations. The equatorial upwellings of the *Pacific's Line Islands, the *Charlotte Bank off Brazil, and the Great Barrier Reef of Australia are a few examples which we will reference later in this paper. There are many other documented sites as well as numerous unexplored ones.
    ....more HERE
     

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  14. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Silence or Noise to Attract Fish

    There has been some debate as to how much a vessel's engine/prop noise signature is an attractant for fish.

    That's why I found this posting so funny...
    markstrimaran said:

    My thoughts on any disadvantages due too drag and non aerodynamic are greatly countered by the fact that, the fish can't hear me coming. Seriously the silent trolling ability clarifies my Panther Martin's ultrasonic spinners, so much. That the fish seem to follow me like a flock of hungry seagulls.
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/aftmast-rigs-623-50.html#post744447
    :cool:;)
     

  15. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    The answer to whether noise attracts or repels fish would be, it depends ! On the species particularly. I know from experience that for most game fish, the strike rate is better if the trolled baits/lures are well behind the boat, as much as 200 metres even. That suggests to me that the fish are spooked by the proximity of the boat.
     
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