Offer: true go anywhere Trawler to build "side by side"

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by apex1, Aug 4, 2009.

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  1. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 7,323
    Likes: 1,216, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    1 person likes this.
  2. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    I DO MR *****! and I am really pi-sed!

    This is a thread about MY boat *****, no matter if you like it or not!

    when was that? we completely missed it! I have honoured your "polite" attempts to hijack this thread by reducing some points from your rep! I am sure you will not resist to "answer" the same way!
    Thats much a description of your posts whoooosh.......... And just another proof that you try to hijack the thread! Why did´nt you just edit?

    Here you cannot show up with your endless "look at my gallery" rubbish. Your comments are neither professional nor welcome! And they are by no means related to the thread.
    Get it in your stubborn head Stu, you are not the person to tell ME anything about building such a complex Yacht. And really absolutely NOTHING about marine Diesels and propulsion. I have restored, operated, repaired, and bought many more of them than you probably have seen.

    So, please, let me play here with all the unprofessionals like Ad Hoc, Dskira, Mike Johns, Daiquiry, Alik, Mark, Teddy and all those I have forgotten. And offer your advice to some of the novices, there are some around on the Forum.

    You have to translate that! I doubt Mr ***** is able to understand Latin Language!
    1 person likes this.
  3. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Richard I am sure you know the icebreaker Wal. She is a beauty in my eyes.
    The picture is bad I took it from the book Historic Ship.
    Let me share some thought about your project since we are talking slow to medium long stroke large diaplacement engine:
    Something came to my mind looking at these low speed engines, perhaps the vessel can been slightly heavier without touching the other dimensions. That will give a little more "belly" underwater, more space in the hull, allowing perhaps the 10,000 n.m. range, and a little more inertia if ice has to be separated and will cut in two the freaking container!
    I know: the price! it is not a good idea to raise the displacement because it raise the cost!
    But in your case I will see some sense to be slightly heavier. You still on the medium to heavy weight range with approximately 250(imperial) displacement/length at 140 tons. (I put a Lwl at 25 meters). You can have some margin to go heavier.
    If you go to a price of 3 million euros, at that point it seams not a real concern. 2,4 millions or 3 millions will not push away a real clients.
    If the boat cost 2.4 millions Euros the running cost for an average customer will be 240.000 Euros a year. If the customer can just afford that, the boat is already to expensive for him.
    The customer should be the ultimate one, the one who has your vision, and the mean to sustain the vision and to go for it all the way. I don't see money an issue at that level.


  4. apex1

    apex1 Guest


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  5. Hägar

    Hägar Previous Member

    Oh god what a great thread! And what a great offer, you must have a backbone apex to discuss your dream in such a forum! I have read all the posting, wht a project, wish I had the money. Dskira said it nice here
    This man seems to be a little bit besides himself and of course not a friend of great projects.
    But from what I have understood nearly ALL here see it like Sasha.
    Go ahead apex1, great task.

  6. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Katuffel Katuffel Katuffel


    Thank you for the great pictures. I love the way of the cut off on the icebraeker bow. I see what you mean about the shape.
    As your vessel will go where you want to go, with the friendly and faithfull 90 liters 6 cylinders engines turning at 350 rpm perhaps, (iddle at 200rpm) the Katuffel Katuffel Katuffel Katuffel will be a song!
    This kind of engine never die, this is serius and beautiful in all aspect.
  7. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Hagar thank you I apreciate.
    Yes it is a great project, need to go ahead with all our thought and opinion. Constructives of course.
    It is a very good thread, with very good people.
  8. wardd
    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 897
    Likes: 37, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 442
    Location: usa

    wardd Senior Member

    on line claims are just that claims and pics in a gallery are just pics in agallery, especially those without any captions of explanation.

    over time one gets a sense of whats bs

    just let it go for what it is
  9. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Whoosh every body I am sure at one point tried to be nice with you, but you are going to far now.
    Please refrain personal attack, and if somebody e-mail you, you have no right to divulge his personal e-mail. It is a breach of trust, and that it is the worst thing you can do.
    Now I have one question: Are you happy now? the answer as you knows is: NO.
    It is never rewarding to insult people, the one who suffers the most is the one who insult. You know why? because it is like booze, it is never enough, and will make your life a living hell because it will disturb your own daily life.
    Concentrate on boat, not on people in the forum.
    You how an apology to Richard, I am serious you how him a big one. Be a man and do it.
    Try to know people, do not manipulate them, do not insult them.
    Whoosh, only weak people insult other. I know it by personal experience.
    It is time for you to reverse your attitude and be courteous and give some constructive thought.
    By the way If you don't like the thread, don't come in. Nobody put a gun on your head saying: you have to post on this thread.
    Last, if you don't like someone, please keep it private.
    And re-last: please read the posts before answering. Read it, digest it, think about it, let 24 hours to stew, and then answer.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2009
  10. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    This is my two cents in drawing.
    This sketch is just to get the ideas flowing for the icebraker go anywhare project.It is not an intention to by pass the naval architect, and I apologize in advance for any inconvenience he will find.
    It is a rough repartitons of the accommodation turning around an engine room, work room and crane has a main consideration. I just want to have a great time in this wounderfull project.
    And sometime a sketch is better than a million words (that not from me it's from Napoleon I beleive.)
    I did that trying to get a sense for myself following the ideas expressed by Richard about the accommodation on such a vessel.
    I am perhaps off but worth it to try!
  11. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    So we can go ahead with a serious design.
    Sorry Daniel, my friend, we have to stay within a two deck plus wheelhouse arrangement.
    The crane is much to large, a good "Palfinger" is about a third of what you have drawn.
    I am willing to be extremely conservative on the propulsion side, but the rest has to be highest high tech. For what would I be willing to waste my money, if not for the best? And the best is the most proven, the least failing, the one the commercial world relies on.
    Marine Electronics for example have a natural name. But I am sure that there are hundreds of contradictions.
    Not if you ask how many miles they did with the crap they prefer.
    A Radar for example is a Furuno, a Gps, is a Furuno, a .......
    leave it, many know better....
  12. MikeJohns
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 3,192
    Likes: 208, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2054
    Location: Australia

    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Resistance tests over a range of speeds are quite informative, even a pole with a pulley, and a weight on the end of the towline with different weights timed over a set distance is very useful.

    I like the idea of Johns back yard test tank and probably all of us have dreamed of this.

    Once you have done some basic testing you can see which prediction method fits the hull and then you can use resistance prediction software for minor change investigation without continually rebuilding the physical model. but this is worthy of a thread of it's own at some stage .

    I have not forgotten this thread I have been very busy and remain so for a while. I'm sorry you received personal attacks, they never serve a useful purpose and just leave bitterness which Daniel sums up quite well.

    I agree with you about accessible side decks and comfortable rough weather berths and it's good to see your appreciation of those attributes.

    You also need to look after the chef too much slamming fwd and the cakes don't rise :)
  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Who was asked to complain here daily? You are welcome on any schedule.;)

    The chef will have its area at a very convenient location, at the main deck, be sure. Ähh.... mainly I will be the one to prepare meals.
  14. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    This is very true, and as said Richard, the chef is the one preparing the meals:)

    Ok an other of my two cents:
    Two deck plus the pilothouse in this size will make sense since all accommodation can be spread longitudinaly and using the greatest beam.
    The galley can be close to the middle next to the dinning saloon on the main deck, an other small galley with a microwave can be down bellow to the crew compartment in their mess area.
    The librairy can be next to the master stateroom which can be on the main deck too.
    The space in the hull can be reserved to guest and crew.
    By the way, I don't remember if it was posted, how many guest will be invited?
    From almost the half of the vessel to the transom, can be reserved to engine room, work room and store room, and the rudder room.
    Perhaps an oversize flush deck hatch can be on the aft deck, giving easier access to the work room for oversize operation like a large repair on the generators. Note that I didn't say engine, a 90 liters @ 300 rpm never brooke!

  15. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 7,323
    Likes: 1,216, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect


    "...I like the idea of Johns back yard test tank and probably all of us have dreamed of this..."

    When i finish it, i'll post/send some pix if you like? (my autumn winter project)
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