Offer: true go anywhere Trawler to build "side by side"

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by apex1, Aug 4, 2009.

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  1. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Whats happened? has he managed to sell one, Oh I see given up.

    Well its hard to build a boat, its very hard for those without a ship yard and the contacts and connections.

    For those of us that have done this raise your glasses, it appears we are as good if not better than the professionals.

    Is it true that 1 boat costs 1 boat but 2 boats cost 1.5?
  2. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Thank you.
    Nice words, though it lasted only 50 minutes then the opposition had to add their nonsense:

    May I ask Frosty; is there someone holding a gun at your head forcing you to spill your cr@p here? Why do you come here every few weeks to spam? In all the years on this platform I have not seen you contributing in a sensible manner (and I doubt you are able), just senseless contradiction and premature spam, spam, spam.......
    We know you do´nt like the place, you do´nt like Icebreakers, Hayabusas (you cannot even spell it), and you do´nt like me (I cannot express how happy I am with that!!!), why do´nt you ignore this thread?

  3. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    I will not see that to a "giving up" situation.
    A project of this maginitude can have some high and low.
    Finding the right partner, dealing with the whole creation, organisation and the financing system is a complicate matter, and even if it is very rewarding to have all the creative power, it still a hard realisation.
    It can take years before the first keel is laid. I don't see that as important.
    I always find the time is not that important after all, sometime a good project can be made better after a pose. Sometime the right partner comes after years, the wrong one to early.
    Anyway I hope we all will continue to give our thought about this ultimate no nonsense exploration vessel.

  4. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    as Dsikra noted, during the life time of a project of this magnitude there are the inevitable highs and lows, in terms of financial, time, stress, procurement, information etc etc etc...

    So long as you keep going (whatever the pace) it will keep going and you will finish :)

    But must get all the peices of the puzzle in place first before rushing point starting half-cocked!
  5. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Air Start Diesels

    Appears to be a number of folks on this subject thread that have considerable experience with 'bigger' diesel engines. I do not have.

    My question is about air-starting. I assume this method is used for larger engines, and is itself a smaller, lighter package than electric starting would be.
    But isn't this method harder on the engine overall...more of a shock loading??

    I thought I remember reading about a number of truckers who were going back to electric starting for their rigs as a result of these extra loadings?
  6. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    No Brian,

    the air is compressed to 20 bar usually. That is not a high load on a piston.
    But there are several disadvantages of the air start too. The bottles have a high volume, much more than the equivalent of starter batteries would have. (though they weigh less).
    And the air vessels have to be inspected and classed every other year. (cost)
    When the air suction brings too much salt spray or humidity into the vessel, they corrode fast from the inside.
    Least, the compressor is running permanently (coupled) and makes noise!

    But nothing (except Steam Engines) can compare with a fat, high displacement 6 cyl. inline Diesel. They last for ever and eternity, especially when connected with a CPP, as in this case.

    Just a few weeks ago I have seen the old Sulzer´s on board "Pasabahce" in Istanbul. They are on duty for more than 50 years now, day in, day out crossing the Marmara Sea. The old engineer told me, there was never a single failure or severe problem with them in all those years! And the books are complete since launch.
    Thats what counts.

  7. Marco1
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Marco1 Senior Member

    Hi Richard, I like your project a lot. Best wishes to find a partner.

    I have a suggestion that may save you about a million or so.
    Get it built by either Seahorse marine in China or Asboat Yacht Building, in Izmir Turkey. Both countries are a good proposition to spend a year or so to oversea the construction.
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  8. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Richard has boatyards in Turkey, Marco.
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  9. Marco1
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Marco1 Senior Member

    CAn I ask why the choice of engine? You don't like MTU?
  10. Marco1
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Marco1 Senior Member

    I see...I was just saying because Seahorse makes the Diesel Duck 55 for some 4 or 500,ooo in china.
  11. marshmat
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    marshmat Senior Member

    Marco, dskira - please don't start, guys. That sort of thing can be saved for PMs if necessary, or better yet not written at all.

    Richard has expressed a strong preference for a traditional large displacement, slow-revving straight six, of a style not found in the lineups of many manufacturers. For most yachts I'd say the kind of engine he wants is overweight overkill, but for the stated mission it seems to be an appropriate choice.

    Re. electric vs. air start: IMHO, it's best to just stick with what the engine manufacturer designed for the engine in question. They know the thing better than anyone. As any railroad guy will tell you, big diesels are hard to start and stop. (For some reason, many truckers think the same about their engines, even though these can be quite easily cranked over electrically in a few seconds- I'm amazed by how much fuel is wasted and how many engines go in for early rebuilds because truckers leave the 400 hp diesel idling overnight to run an air conditioner that draws maybe 4 hp.) There is something to be said for a good auxiliary power system if you are going to be using a big diesel as your prime mover.
  12. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Marshmat you are absolutly right, and I deleted my post.
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  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest


    both of these yards I know personally well, and both are far below my level, very far. Grenaa Diesel is the engine, if...

    This offer is not valid any longer!

    I closed down the Steel yard, due to the market situation. And building at any other yard does´nt have the advantages we would have had here. The average market price of such a yacht is in the 10 mio € region! My offer was based on the possibility to get it ALL done in house and at net cost. And of course one reason was to keep the labourers employed.
    Did not happen, so what.
    Just, one out there missed to get a boat for almost the material cost. Bad luck....

    The fact that I lost my Children in September still lets me think about the sense of building that vessel, I´m nor sure.

    But when I build it, I definetively will not post anything here!

    The dumb attacks and several idiotic attempts to hijack the thread by some uneducated, jealous ****** make it unattractive to share such plans and thoughts.

    My special thanks to Daniel Skira, Ad Hoc, Mike Johns, Matt Marsh, Teddy Diver, Mark, bntii and all the others contributing in a sensible manner, I did really appreciate!

  14. Marco1
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Marco1 Senior Member

    Well, Richard, I did not know any of your personal history, the fact that you had your own shipyard nor the loss of your children. I happen to know those two shipyards because they build Diesel Ducks on a budget.
    My interest in this project was genuine and my questions and suggestions likewise. I thought MTU was the best you can get.

    I discovered this tread a day or so ago and skipped most of it because the toss and turns of some post makes it most unpalatable. There seems to be a tendency on this forum to get personal very quickly. I suppose it is better than an Italian forum though.

    I am very sorry for your loss. No one is ever ready for the loss of a child.

    I hope you get your boat built. Your idea was a good one. Building two or three identical boats is a good way to keep costs down.
    I have been toying with the idea of getting a Diesel Duck built at Seahorse marine and sail it from China to Sydney myself.

    Best wishes

  15. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    I still have my yards Marco. (or hold shares in some) That was only one I closed. But the only one building in metal.

    MTU is of course the best money can buy. But I am talking about displacement monsters of 80 liter and only 700hp! A completely different world.

    Yes there was very soon a "helpful contributor" here, trying to tell the experts when the water freezes. Some of his "helpful" drivel is´nt deleted and still disturbs the eye. No idea about the really heavy Diesels but he did know everything better.

    But in general I was very pleased with the constructive contribution of the experienced and knowledgeable members, and I mentioned them above.

    Kaya does the boats at a lower price than the Chinese. btw

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