Not designing but planning

Discussion in 'Software' started by Magnus W, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. Magnus W
    Joined: Nov 2017
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    Location: Sweden

    Magnus W Senior Member

    Is there a tool out there that can allow me to toy with different hull length and beam, deck planning and interior layout etc? Kind of like the IKEA kitchen planner tool but a boat.

    It would be nice if I could set some parameters like OA length, lvl, beam, beam at chine, deadrise, deck height and then start putting parts on the boat as a way to visualise how it would look like irl. Also if I could fit say an engine with the correct length, width and height in the position that I want it (it doesn't have to look like an engine, just a block minecraft style is ok).

    I'm sure that everything I need is available in the advanced alternatives but I'm just looking for a more generic style layout tool.
     
  2. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    Not really.
    I think that you need to do a few steps before that stage.

    A kitchen has a well defined role - it has to have a flat surface, a washing area, a cooking device and plumbing.
    A Boat is soooo varied in use and purpose, you just cant start at the "fiddling" stage.
    Imagine moving accomodation or engines around in a Dinghy versus a 40'ft Trawler, versus a Catamaran.

    For a boat, you need an SOR (Statement of Requirements) for the "system" required.

    You could start with Cost. How much can you afford - maximum.

    Then you specify minimum performance (sail/power)
    Then you specify minimum load carrying. (people/gear)
    Then you specify minimum range (power/sail)

    At that point, you would then start looking at existing solutions, and see if the requirements can be met using indicative market prices.

    IF it looks feasible, then you can cost any special "non-standard" needs, and see if it is still possible.

    Then you can start fiddling with "Options", as you should have an easier set of choices for engine, internal layout, enhanced performance etc to consider.

    For example, you usually won't be fitting a 25o HP Diesel on a 40 ft Catamaran.
     
  3. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Well...yes....and ...no The two are incompatible, is mostly the issue.

    Deck planning/layout...yes....a simple pencil and paper will do that. But any sketching software can do that. As it is simply a matter of space requirements. You create your "box" envelope to fit the things you want - into the box - your boat.
    That is the easy part.

    As for different length/beam etc...yes. You can sue the same software you elect to use, as above. BUT.......the shape size depth of the hull shape you arrive at does not automatically mean fitting the layout into it will work.

    The shape of the hull when floating, level, up right, stable, in the water displaces a certain amount of volume. That volume = displacement. That displacement = weight, weight of all the things you wish to add into your boat.
    This includes the engine, the beds, the cooker, the fridge, the windows...everything.

    So, whilst finding 'some' software that allows you to draw whatever layout you wish, and then cut and pasting it onto/into the hull shape you have selected, how do you know if it will i) float ii) float up right, and iii) be stable?
    That is well before you even understand things like resistance and powering.

    Most people who do not design, start back to front - i.e incorrect sequence. The last thing that is done, is the hull. Because until you have done a full weight estimate, taken from your SOR, you have no idea what the "boat" will weigh. Without knowing that, you can't select the correct hull nor can you estimate/calculate its speed and hence the power requires = size and number of engines. Thus any hull shape will do at the beginning....until you have proven what actually is possible.
     
  4. Magnus W
    Joined: Nov 2017
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    Magnus W Senior Member

    Thanks, I'm familiar with what you say regarding the correct process and I'm already talking to designers who do things the right way.

    But it's more the sketching part I'm after, as a way of toying with (mostly) interior space.
     
  5. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Good.

    So, once those "designers" you're already talking to have come up with the basic size/length/beam/shape of hull, then you have a 'space' envelope, as this will determine how much interior space you have to play with.
    Simple :cool:
     
  6. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    The way you were talking sounded like not much work has been done.

    If you have gotten to a designer stage, your engine is a done deal - size, weight positioning is not some arbitrary whim.
     
  7. Magnus W
    Joined: Nov 2017
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    Location: Sweden

    Magnus W Senior Member

    We’re not that far yet.

    I have determined the beam I need for my purposes which is derived from the cabin width as well as the ability to walk besides the cabin on both sides with ample enough space.

    Since the cabin area is somewhat fixed due to number of passengers the cabin length has a lowest value.

    So beam is on the SOR list.

    Another is a single engine with jet. Size is to be determined by the thrust needed to push the boat at 25 knots with 1000 kg payload and fuel for 250 M.

    So basically the length and hull shape can be whatever they need to be.
     
  8. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    I don't think you really have a grasp of the situation.

    The Length and Hull shape cannot be "anything".

    The wrong length, beam, shape will determine the size and weight of the engine for starters. Increase the hull length, the weight goes up, the engine gets bigger.
    If the shape or even cross profile is wrong, it wont plane, and your waterjet ideas will all be unworkable.

    The engine size/weight and hull dimensions are a work together. They are not arbitrary. The are not "designable" except by qualified people.
     

  9. Magnus W
    Joined: Nov 2017
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    Location: Sweden

    Magnus W Senior Member

    Of course they are intimately connected. Did I say they weren’t?

    I just said that I only care about beam. And by care I mean having a firm opinion.

    So the shape and length can indeed be anything they need to be as I don’t care if it’s x or y degrees deadrise or if it’s x or y meters in length in order for the boat to meet my SOR with an acceptable efficiency.

    From a designers point of view I would think that that amount of freedom would be appreciated since the SOR doesn’t include parameters that normally can contradict one another.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
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