No Foil Assist on IDEC

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Chris Ostlind, Aug 20, 2007.

  1. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    Oh Douglas...

    If lifting foils are so important to a fast multihull, why in the world would such an experienced skipper, such as Francis Joyon, not include them for his new, record chasing trmaran, IDEC?

    How does he do it, this crafty and knowing guy, without the aid of foil assist? Could it be that foil assist equipped boats just are not the best answer for most sailing needs? Could it be that they are vulnerable to breakage in ways not affecting the single, vaka mounted angled board used by Joyon? Could it be that a jammed traditional board in its trunk would not be anywhere near as dangerous to mess with in the middle of a fast, dangerous record run in the Southern Oceans?

    Put yourself out on the ama of a 100' tri smoking along at 25 plus knots, while all around you are 40' waves with breaking tops, 30+ knot winds and water so cold you will die if you fall overboard. Does it still sound like a screwed-up lifting foil is a great idea?

    For those not familiar with the boat, there's a brief bit on her newest record smashing run in today's Sailing Anarchy (the third article down)

    Below are some photos and wire frame line drawings of the new IDEC trimaran so that you can see that fast boats do not need lifting foils in order to go quickly and set records. Also included is a shot of Thomas Coville with his new maxi-tri Sodeb'O in the background. You can clearly see that he is also using a single, vaka mounted daggerboard with not a whif of banana lifting foils in the amas. Is this boy just flat crazy to be ignoring the pronouncements of Doug Lord, or what?


    Attached Files:

  2. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    Foil Assist

    Both IDEC and Sodebo were designed by Nigel Irens who has designed many foil assist boats as well as the full flying 40' foiler SKAT. I would imagine that both boats are structurally designed to be able to handle the addition of foils at a later date; Sodebo is for sure.*
    From The Daily Sail about Sodebo:
    " At present the boat won't be fitted with ORMA 60-style curved foils in her floats - although structurally she is set-up to accept them at some stage in the future. "
    They want to wait and get some experience with the boat...
    New era
    Address: Changed:8:51 PM on Monday, August 20, 2007
  3. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    Eventually, Doug, we all have to start dealing with the here and now. Not the what mighta been, or the woulda, coulda, shoulda syndrome.

    Otherwise, every fat guy in the US would be sporting Olympic Gold medals for track. And we all now that ain't gonna happen in this lifetime.

    Good luck with the dream-scheme, though.
  4. Gary Baigent
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Unfortunately Chris Ostlind (you flat earther amidst multihullers) although you brayed about Francis Joyon not using lifting foils on his new Idec, (presumably to continue your now somewhat boring abuse of foil crusader Doug Lord) the sistership SobedO, having also completed very successful sea trials and crossings, the skipper Thomas Coville has observed that the fairly narrow Irens trimaran is a little tippy, or to be correct, tends to bury her leeward float when powered up – his answer, and since Irens drew the design to accommodate lifting foils in the floats, is to fit foils to counter this somewhat annoying, dare I say, unseaman-like problem. If Joyon follows suit, (he after all knows about lifting foils having been involved with pioneering foil stabilized design in the 1980’s, the Lombard designed Ker Cadillac) you’re going to look a bit stupid mate.
    Gary Baigent
  5. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    You know, Bubba... this is all just beer drinkin' conversation here with hardly any substantive connection to anything that has any gravity attached. Certainly not this topic, nor any of Doug's "sucking of the foil" entries.

    The whole thing is meant in gest as a conversation starter and you have clearly found it to your liking in that regard. I actually happen to enjoy a proper application of foils of all types when the situation suits the need and when it makes sense from a design perspective.

    Life is an experience in which one has to have a sense of balance. Since there has been so much hot air about foils in general as the next coming of The Jesus from the Doug as well as, apparently, dudes like yourself, it only makes sense to me to have some fun offering-up a counter shot, or two, that keeps the balance issue in perspective.

    Now, with that said, maybe you can ask yourself, from deep down inside where the foil thing lives... Why would two really good, really fast and really experienced sailors opt for single daggerboards on their new, multi-million Euro boats when they, apparently, had the option from the get-go to put the other, more complex setup on their boats from the yard?

    If you answer that one from your heart instead of your head, you'll see that there was a reason, all along, for posting this thread.

    If these two guys end-up switching to other foil systems to pursue their goals, then good on them. These are not my boats, my goals, nor my risks in the Southern Ocean under "racing the clock" conditions. I guess that we all have to dance with the devil a bit in order to get what we are going for.

    So, Gary... what is your dance with the devil? Has it worked out for you? Would you do it again?
  6. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    To foil or not-let the record speak

    Wow, Mr. Ostlind thats one of the most bizarre backpedaling posts I've ever read! Cool!

  7. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    Ya don't get out much, do ya Doug?

    By the way... where's that nifty People's foiler with the sliding thingy and the canting thingy and the vibrator seat thingy? You've been promising this for, what?... a year and a half now and still nothing to show for all that Jesus Foil traveling tent show you keep putting down.

    Dude you should be in the shop, where real work happens.

    Some of the new the guys here, who read these posts, are probably not aware of your lengthy and rather vociferous pronouncements about making your own personal solution for what ails the affordable People's Boating market.

    Well, folks, Doug has laid another loud and smelly "egg" and until he shows what he has been spewing about for all these months, he's just another poseur with a keyboard.

    Back pedaling Doug.... really now?

    Hey, since you bring up the topic of pedaling, how'd you like to have a race with me on bicycles. I'll bring my own bike and you can get whatever will carry you and we'll race a five mile course. Winner gets to tell the other one to shut up and the loser does just that, He shut's up here on this list for one year.

    I'd suggest we bike here in the mountains, but you'd never last one mile. So, how's somewhere half way between us at sea level sound to you? That'd probably be somewhere on the Gulf Coast of Texas. Of course, I won't be giving you an oxygen tank handicap just because I train at altitude.

    Name the date, Doug... now's your chance.

    Got the sack for that, Doug? Oh, by the way, this will be a non-foil event.

    I'll wait for you to get your act together... Bro
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