Newbie on deck.....

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by Kiwi_Fella, Oct 13, 2009.

  1. Kiwi_Fella
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 3
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: New Zealand

    Kiwi_Fella Kiwi

    Hi There,

    I've been around powerboats and yachts most of my life, and the time has come where i've (cleverly or not) acquired myself a small project hull.

    As best i can tell its plywood contrsuction (although looks to have been expoxied inside) and looks to be a Hartley Design (no name plates on it) but has a very nice water form and is a pleasure to ride in. The problem is roughly half of the hull ply is so soft I can stick a screwdriver gently into it and it stays upright......scary.

    So i'm after some guidance on the best places to learn on how to replace a few of the stringers and a large portion of the hull ply and then some advice on "to glass or not to glass" and where i can learn this process.

    I'm a total newbie at this and am looking to learn. A few of the stringers feel a bit soft so may as well deal with it all while its in the shed.

    So pointers to some reading and demo would be much appreciated. The hull cost me all of $400 NZ (i think thats about 65c US in our NZ Peso currency) so if i stuff it up, it'll be a learning exercise.

    Much appreciated
    Brian.
     
  2. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Some pictures or at least technical data would help a lot!

    And welcome aboard!
     
  3. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 490, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Well, logging onto the Hartley site will help determine if indeed you have one of their designs. http://hartley-boats.com/index.html

    Repairs depend on what, where, how, etc. Generally, you'll have to pull the plywood planking off, repair screw holes, broken frames, rotted cine logs, etc. then hang new planking stock. It's not hard, though there are lots of pit falls and tricks to make your life interesting.

    At this point, pictures will be handy and we can likely tell you what Hartley she is and how much pain, I mean work you're in for.
     
  4. Kiwi_Fella
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 3
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: New Zealand

    Kiwi_Fella Kiwi

    Photos etc from The Newbie

    Ok i've included a few pics of the boat, its in the shed has a few bits around it.

    Measurements are 17ft long and about 6ft on the beam, i didnt get that measurement when i was out there.

    Along the base of the hull it has a lot of soft spots, as you can see its a very very flat hull near the stern, and in one of the photos at the shift from the V to the flattening of the hull the main stringer is completly rotten and pulled out in my hand.

    Any help on where ti start reading etc would be greatly appreciated. I'm gathering the correct terms for things, but until last night i didnt know what a chine was....

    Thanks
    B.
     

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  5. Kiwi_Fella
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 3
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: New Zealand

    Kiwi_Fella Kiwi

    Hey folks, does anyone have any ideas on whwre to start with re-skinning the hull?

    Is it really as simple as cutting the old one out, replacing the afftected stringer and then re-decking the hull?

    Also what would happen if i was to add a layer of glass over the entire hull?

    I've read in some places comments about this approach causing instability of the hull afterwards.

    Thanks
    Brian.
     
  6. alan white
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    Location: maine

    alan white Senior Member

    Before going too far, you might get someone who knows boats like this to look at the boat and assess the extent of the work involved in bringing it back.
    I'm not saying that this should determine whether or not to do the work. Only you can determine whether you want to take it all on once you know about how much work it will take.
    It does help to get an idea of the extent of the damage.
    Once the hull is repaired, it's epoxy/tape reinforement of seams and probably a single layer of fiberglass you'll apply to the hull exterior.
    Inside, once you've cleaned the old glop off the inner hull surfaces, the seams should be 'glass-taped with epoxy and bulkheads replaced, repaired, or cleaned to bare wood and attached to the hull with tape and epoxy.
    The problem with older boats, if they've been either originally glassed or "fixed" by adding glass, is that typically, polyester resin was used.
    While poly resin makes decent solid glass hulls, applied to plywood it has poor adhesion and water permiability, and over time the bond will fail, resulting in exactly the situation you are now encountering.
    Your analysis of the job has to take into account the question of how much "apparantly sound" original construction is worth saving, given the knowledge that much of the boat is absorbing large quantities of expensive epoxy resin and materials, and a lot of time too.
    After all, you want to button it all up and not have to deal with anything major for a very long time.
    The question of how far to go, in many cases, leads an ameteur eventually to replace and make good far more than he'd originally considered, since so much of the "bad old stuff" is hidden from view, only to emerge piecemeal, until the realization arrives that it would have been far cheaper to have simply built a new boat!
    The flip side is that it's exactly such projects that teach us the most (through physical and financial agony). I've done it myself, and got tied up for years, and got a superb education in the bargain, at only half what a private tutor would have charged. I also could have bought at least three boats that were already more sound than the one I got swallowed up in.
    The bottom line is, know at least a little about what you're getting into.
    Skinning the boat wouldn't be done until the major repairs are done. It would help to get some assistance and flip the hull upside down, in fact pretty imperitive. Take things one at a time. First determine if, given what advice you can get, what the scope of the project will be.
     

  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 490, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Start by taking everything that's attached to the hull off. At the very least these things will need new bedding, if not wholesale replacements.

    With the hull stripped down of all hardware and bolt on accessories, you can then tackle things like the cabin sides, roof, windshield frame, etc. Rolling the boat over will be a might bit easier if the hardtop isn't there.

    Build a cradle to support the boat fairly level in the inverted position and attached it. You'll want it to lift the boat to a reasonable working height and permit you to crawl under from time to time. Then roll the boat over onto it's newly built cradle.

    Grind away the paint from the fasteners that hold the planking on and try to remove as many as you can without breaking them off or other wise screwing them up. The buggered ones can be removed with a bolt extractor. This will roughly let you remove the planking, though you'll have to sort out many details as you go.

    Alan is very correct in that you should have a wooden boat guy out to look her over as you may just be restoring something not worth your trouble. It may be easier and more cost effective to build a new one, just like this one and swap out the hardware.

    I could be a Scamp or Fairline. I've seen them with a thousand different cabin/hardtop treatments, so you may never know without comparing specific dimensions.
     
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