Newbee with a brilliant idea needs your help!

Thanks for your contribution, BulBob.

I do happen to disagree: both Kites and elastomer tankers will be used in the future on a large scale.

They are excellent technologies to fight two world problems, namely Peak Oil and Water Scarcity.

As I understand it, new breakthroughs in finding ways to solve these problems won't come from you.

Cheers, KiteTug

 

I would try an inflatable kite, say roughly like a waterbed mattress where the working face was nonstretch fabric and it was filled with helium or something. Or ballons that would haul the working kite up and also hold it up if the wind quit or the towed object reached the same speed as the wind. A self supported kite could also be rigged with propellors to help deploy and position itself. They could be battery/solar powered or run by power supplied by an electric cable either attached to or being a part of the towline connecting the kite and towed object. Maybe?? Sam

 

The Future

KiteBug,
Water is not scarce and improved filters will eliminate the need to transport it. It just doesn't make sense to use water as your medium for transporting water in the long run. I believe technology of a different kind will come well before the need you see for this kite stuff.
As far as transporting petroleum, other fossil fuels, or any materials in a bag is just not going to be the wave of the future. Our dependence on fossil fuels will also become outdated in ten years or we will have more war and pollution then one can imagine.
If you want to see what the future will bring try reading "The Singularity is Near" for starters. Ray Kurzweil is a lot closer to reality with his nano-technology then you are with sail driven bags.

You said: “As I understand it, new breakthroughs in finding ways to solve these problems won't come from you.”

Insult me if you must but logic takes precedence.

I apologize if I offended you – it was just an early morning grouchy outburst. I put some merit on all new ideas.


BulBob

 

Mmm, where do you get the idea that water scarcity is not a problem? Many countries suffer from it. Only because of the fact that some of those countries have cheap petroleum, they can use it to desalinate water. But once petroleum becomes much more expensive (as it is becoming now), desalination costs go up likewise.

That is why several people are looking into the big bags. They're much more economical than desalination plants.


35000 ton baggie carrying water between Turkey and the island of Bodrum.

When it comes to bestsellers by popular authors predicting change through technology, I am openminded but sceptical.
Remember the hype about biotech and artificial intelligence? In the early 1990s people predicted that our world would have been radically changed by 2010 because of these new technologies. Nothing really happened.
The same is already true for nano-technology; a lot of noise, no real action.

But still, nanotechnology will be applied in the field of the big bulk water carriers. Those who've studied it know that new materials (especially nano fibre-rope) will come in handy.

For the time being, nobody expects a breakthrough in desalination technologies; that's logical since you need energy to start with, and nano-technology nor any other new technology aren't making any serious progress on the front of energy technology.

So in short, I like to read books like the "Singularity is Near" as a hobby (I also like to go to the movies), but they don't drive people who are looking for solutions to concrete problems.

 

Read the book!

 

BulBob,

Thanks for the referral to Kurzweil's book and thanks especially for the apology for your "disfunctional (sp) garbage" comment. I happen to agree with you regarding the paramountcy of transporting water, but I do not believe my life's work into preserving petroleum resources to be either dysfunctional or garbage.

Kurxweil offers some brilliant insight, but these kinds of books always leave me with mixed feelings--exuberient optimism that Mankind may rise above the (sometimes) petty worries of today's society, and also a feeling of "vuja de" (the intuitive feeling we'll never see this place) when I compare such frankly utopian concepts with past "shangri-las" such as "too cheap to meter" electricity from nuclear fission (and fusion); limitless power from fuel cells, modern robots extending the leisure class to all humanity, The end of disease, etc, etc. The trail of failed expectations, famine, illness and pollution dangers is simply too long to ignore.

The solution to modern Man's problems may well be in the evolution of his very being into an improved species, but I'd have to offer that the smart money's going to stay with imporving the lot we've already been dealt.

Dave

 

Nothing is certain

I do not believe a lot of the timing that is proposed in the book. But just the fact that we are communicating like we are shows the world is getting smaller and heading somewhere - as stated in 2001 Space Odyssey "Something Wonderful". Now, if we can get rid of the stupid folks in Washington that want use fear to line their pockets with gold and get back on better track we may get there.
Your life's work at preserving petroleum is most honorable. But it may someday be an obsolete skill as is my profession. My profession is designing environmental equipment for utility companies and I find it gratifying when I can make a little process improvement that makes the system work better and more efficiently.
I understand the full damage that’s done when burning fossil fuels and we need to move away from that as soon as possible. There will be much better uses for petroleum then burning for energy in the future.

I really just joined the sight because I thought someone would help with my little project. http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9902
I guess folks have mor eimportant things to worry about.

 

It's not immediately on my agenda, I'm reading Peter Sloterdijk's The Operable Man - On the Ethical State of Gene Technology, Diamond's Collapse and Emmanuel Todd's Après l'empire right now. Add Bourdieu's La Misère du Monde.
I do happen to have heard about the hype in the English speaking world around Kurzweil's book, and I have read a few reviews, which make me conclude that it's not really worth my time. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

What amazes me then is that apparently you are not very aware of the problem of water scarcity, which is tied very much to energy production in the Maghreb and elsewhere. Strange.



Anyway, I'm not at all suggesting that bulk water transports will solve the world's water crisis, but it will definitely be part of it. And since that will be the case, it's best to start looking for technological innovations to do so in an efficient way.

But then, maybe in the year 2025 we'll all be genetically modified creatures that can do without a single drop of water, and then all that work will have been in vain.

Seriously though, let's try to keep our both feet on the ground, and let's keep the lecture of Kurzweil's and similar books as a hobby.

 

What your talking about is not really sustainable any more then fuel you burn to do it. Solar power is coming down in cost and the areas that are in most need of water are good areas for solar power to run desalinization plants.
I just don't like things that burn fossil fuels because they cause global warming. You may be contributing to the problem not solving it.

 

That's why we're talking about a tug pulling bags, using a kite.

You as an energy/environmental engineer should know that desalination plants are some of the world's most polluting and environmentally destructive technologies out there.

So I envision a tug running partly on a biofuel, with a kite to bring down power requirements; theoretically, this should bring down GHG emissions by anything between 50 and 80%.

In my scheme there's no destruction of the marine environment, which is the case with desalination. Moreover, desalination is extremely energy intensive. Nobody will use solar for large scale applications, unless the cost of solar electricity comes down by a factor of 10 or 20, which is very unlikely in the near future.

In the meantime, water-scarce regions need water, and they may consider buying it in bulk (as, e.g. Namibia is doing, even though Namibia has some of the greatest potential on the planet for solar).

Solar-desalination is much more environmentally destructive, I think, than bringing in fresh water by way of biofuel+kite powered polymer tanker.

 

You can use the wind to sail a water carrier or to run a fresh water plant....

 

True, but even if you use windpower to desalinate water, you still destroy the environment. Desalination is extremely polluting and totally lethal to all benthic life. The highly saline sludge it produces kills everything that comes near to it. Entire coastal marine environments have been destroyed by desalination plants.

 

I just don't get you BulBob, one minute your wanting to produce scientific discoveries like NOW! the next you invent some sort of gizmo that takes ages to pull a meal from the water! And bores the *** of you in the process!
So whilst I agree that robots etc Can be of use in the future, let us hope that we can keep going until somebody gets functioning models of all these fantastic ideas! Until then the world IS running out of fresh water (fact!) and also running out of Fossil fuel (fact!) Somehow we need to keep going until your 'science fiction' stuff is available. At the moment we'll keep desalinating salt water cos it's easier (mankind is notoriously lazy!) then when we have to! but only then we'll start looking for cheap feasable ways of getting what we need to live! then we can waste time on 'toys'

As for you fishing - have you thought of half a pound of Plastic Explosive and a three second fuse! Sure it plays Hell with the environment but you surely gets a meal!

 

Garbage

OK, I called it “GARBAGE” - shoot me - everyone has an opinion but questioning my morals is almost funny.

I fish for relaxation - catch and release mostly.
I do some gardening too.
I am an environmentalist not a PETA nut.
I am 52 and have been married for 32 and have 2 kids both in college and am just treading water financially.
I am C-Span Junky and read a lot.
I have a full time job and spent a lot of time on my patent instead of fishing the last 3 years.
I fish from a belly boat or my canoe for exercise.
I have worked in air pollution control for 25 years and part of it involves waste water processing supplied by others. There are water treatment systems that can be 100% environmentally friendly.
Civilizations have come and gone throughout history because of lack of water caused by various environmental happenings. If it comes down to an emergency situation today – yes –brining in water to keep people alive, but it should not be considered a long term fix. Selling water as commodity is what you are heading towards and that’s crazy. Pollution (air born) has destroyed more water reserves then anything. If we keep burning fossil fuels there will not be any drinkable water anywhere and we will all be dependent on water purification systems. I used to be able to drink my well water but not anymore and fossil fuels are to blame in one way or another.

I have several environmental equipment patents where I work for very little rewarded. The BulletBobber is something I invented, for me, and no matter how you want to trivialize it, it very important to me. I have always been in favor of taking a kid fishing and not for the sake of the of the power boat industry who is the main financial backer of such advertisements. The 10% excise tax I will have to pay goes mostly to the promotion of the power boat industry and that really sucks. My patent is a good toy for kids, elderly, the handicapped and all to have some fun fishing. I contributed boxes of BulletBobbers to various youth groups. I am hoping to land some big distributors and turn a profit next spring.

Call me a hypocrite because I can not live true to my beliefs but who can?
If we I live forever as Kurzweil suggest there will be time to make it right.
Right now I am worried about just getting a little ahead.

Happy New Year to ALL!