New propulsion sytems for ships

Discussion in 'Propulsion' started by Guillermo, Dec 2, 2005.

  1. Guillermo
    Joined: Mar 2005
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    Location: Pontevedra, Spain

    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Maritime transport worldwide contributes 14% of global nytrogen oxides emissions and 7% of sulphur emissions, not to talk about CO2. How could we cut down this huge amount of contaminants?

    State of the art for more energy conservative and enviromental friendly ships' propulsion:

    Fuel cells:
    http://www.na-me.ac.uk/fcship/FCSHIP RTD Roadmap.pdf
    http://www.fuelcelltoday.com/FuelCe...ternal/NewsDisplayArticle/0,1602,5875,00.html

    Diesel-electric: (Not new, but first time applied to fishing vessels)
    http://www.maritimejapan.com/JSC%5Cmaritimejapan.nsf/v_search_j/79E4D184A9CB0ADE80256FA400403DDF/$FILE/ATTNDN6L.pdf

    The CES power system (Turbines):
    http://www.cleanenergysystems.com/2005/technology.html

    The Jirnov Vortex Engine:
    http://generalvortexenergy.net/

    Rigid Sails:
    http://nippon.zaidan.info/seikabutsu/2003/00574/contents/0405.htm
    http://eprints.lib.hokudai.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/2115/621/1/JFSF2000.PDF

    Kites:
    http://skysails.info/index.php?id=13
    http://www.kiteship.com/

    Combined systems:
    http://www.2wglobal.com/expo2005/english/index.jsp

    Anymore....?
     
  2. cyclops
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    cyclops Senior Member

    They will always find the cheapest setup and use it. Forget changing them. They are registered in countries that care less than nothing.
     
  3. tom kane
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    Location: Hamilton.New Zealand.

    tom kane Senior Member

    New Zealand has been using Biodiesel,in this case processed Tallow (animal Fat) and fleets of trucks have been using it for quite a time.Some of the processing plants have been quite large but very big ones being built.Also many farm machines have been run on **** seed oil and that seems to perform well.There has been a lot of development in Biodiesel.
     
  4. cyclops
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    cyclops Senior Member

    I know how. But all the first class countries will not do it. Go back to each country building its own products and the ships are no longer needed. Everyone willing to work? Naahh.
     
  5. FAST FRED
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "Go back to each country building its own products "

    And you loose the efficency of specilazition.

    Willing to pay $300 for a pair of shoes?

    Willing to walk WORLDWIDE because your locals cant build a 747?

    Globalization gives the entire world a far higher std of living , INCLUDING the $1.00 an hour labor .
    (that would be getting $1.00 a DAY as much of the world now does).

    The Marine engine industry is very highly regulated , only for NEWBUILDS, which get cleaner by the year.

    The old scuzbuckets are NOT allowed into advanced countries, so eventually get sunk. or even scrapped.

    FAST FRED
     
  6. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Tom,
    Do you know about any experience, or study, about using biodiesel in vessels? If so, Is there a place where I can get the info?
    I'm trying to investigate all possible propulsion alternatives available nowadays, even the weirdiest ones, so every :idea: contribution to that end will be most appreciated.
     
  7. D'ARTOIS
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    Location: The Netherlands

    D'ARTOIS Senior Member

    In all earnest Guillermo, to fuel commercial carriers, bulk or container, there cannot enough biodiesel in the world to cater for the mass of requirement. For small craft, yes. I am using it already in a 60 kW application.

    The D28 series of M.A.N. may run on natural gas in case of stationary application.

    Theoreticall it is quite possible - w/o any difficulty - practical it is daydreaming.
     
  8. JonathanCole
    Joined: May 2005
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    Location: Hawaii

    JonathanCole imagineer

    The solutions to our current planet choking energy dillemma will be multiple sources of fuel. How about using low level radioactive waste to make nuclear batteries that last for ten years without need for a recharge?
    http://www.physorg.com/news4081.html
    They can be encased in lead and used for ballast. Too weak to cause a meltdown or catastrophic event. Might be a good way to use up the huge and growing amounts of nuclear waste.
     
  9. Guillermo
    Joined: Mar 2005
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    Location: Pontevedra, Spain

    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    JONATHAN:
    Thanks a lot. Interesting info. Following your link, I've found also this on Betavoltaic Batteries and other energy sources:
    http://www.automorrow.com/articles/betavoltaic.html
    http://users.erols.com/iri/FutureEnergyTech.html
    http://www.betabatt.com/
    24 Watts per kilo and 25% efficiency doesn't seem to be too useful for vessels' power applications, although very interesting for other uses.

    D'ARTOIS:
    I wolud like to know more about your biodiesel 60kW small craft plant. Is it mains or auxiliary? What kind of biodiesel? Efficiency?...Etc, Etc.
     
  10. JonathanCole
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    JonathanCole imagineer

    The mistake you are making is a common one. 24 watts per kilo is 24 watts per hour x 10 years x 365 days x 24 hours divided by 746 watts/hp yields 2818 hp hours per kilogram over the battery's life. No additional fuel is required. Since boats use ballast anyway why not have the ballast generate energy? The 25% efficiency just means that the other 75% of the energy is turned into heat which can also be used to generate power in a process called cogeneration.

    See: http://www.atomicinsights.com/apr95/batteries.html
     
  11. D'ARTOIS
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    D'ARTOIS Senior Member

    Guillermo, with pleasure I forward you this info. We have a large estate and we employ several tractors. My brother in law who has also a position in the local community was first against the use of biodiesel but now our equipment runs on it. The cheapest for us is sunflower or cornoil this cost us about Euro 0.20 ct per liter - grosso modo. I can get it cheaper but that is not from a guaranteed supply.
    Technically, very little has to be done to the diesel engines: the vegetable oil is preheated by an electrical system that is pleced before the fuelfilters and a bypass from the watercooling that winds around the fuellines.
    The oil increases in volume by almost 50% and therefore the engines run very economical- in general the econo,y is increased by 25%; almost no emissions and another advantage is that biodiesel puts oxygen in the atmosphere and not sulphurs and carbons.

    If the preheating system works well, almost any vegetable oil can be used.

    We have tried a variety of vegetable oils in a VW dieselengine that has a mechanical fuelpump. It took cornoil, oliveoil, walnutoil any oil we put in the tank.
    I thought that the engines would became less powerfull, but no, not at all it went that way.

    Of course this is only a practical example. But as lonmg as it works, I am not interested in the how's and why's. It works.

    There was an immediate reaction by the tax-authorities, threatening with draconic measurements to users of Biodiesel. Only they forgot that within two years ther's election and only after a broadside volley from the environmentalsts they had to admit they were whistled back by the politicians.
    The problem is that the energy-supply has a political relation wqith oilcompanies and banks and therfore nobody dares to make the first step.

    Specifically in France, shortly before election time, with a government that is impopulars as a government can be, politicians are quite like mouses and do not dare to take measurements against the biodiesel users. Mostly farmers that are capable of making their own oil or capable to buy it cheaply.

    A 1600 cc diesel that runs normally 6L on 100 kms will run now 4,5 L on 100 kms - that what I measured in a VW diesel.

    Again, thwese experiments are all empirical, but in Germany real tests have been done and although the outcome is same as mine, this one is technically proved and explained for.

    So far my findings....
     
  12. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I agree that the energy supplies are a major source of political power. There are many technologies that would shift this power to others. It has happen in the past. For example, when automobiles first made their appearance, buggy and carriage makers either adapted or went out of business. At the same time, waste materials like gasoline became valuable. I support any system that improves our lifestyle and protects the environment. At the same time, I'd like to see the transission as peaceful as possible.
     
  13. cyclops
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    cyclops Senior Member

    Would you as the president of a oil company want to be told that oil from fossil deposits can ONLY BE USED FOR LUBRICATING purposes and nothing else?------------------------ Would you and the Oil Cartels Say, " Right on , for the betterment of future generations."
     
  14. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Castor oil is still used for racing engines. It comes from a nut.
     

  15. tom kane
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Hamilton.New Zealand.

    tom kane Senior Member

    New propulsion system for ships

    www.diogenemarine.com may have some info,there are others.
     
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