new pride of Norweigian sunk after SERIES of bungles

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Squidly-Diddly, Nov 13, 2018.

  1. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 1,318
    Likes: 32, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 304
    Location: SF bay

    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    Stricken Norwegian Frigate Has Almost Completely Sunk After Its Anchor Wires Snapped http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/24887/stricken-norweigan-frigate-has-almost-completely-sunk-after-its-anchor-wires-snapped

    This coming on heels of Russia's "the floating smoke stack" being knocked out of action for foreseeable future.

    IIRC, there was lots of sabre rattling recently in the Norway/Russia region. Looks like peace has broken out. Reminds of when on old "Get Smart" TV show Max fights a karate assassin. Neither ever touches the other but they both beat themselves up badly slamming hands, feet, heads, etc into various objects and ill timed gymnastics.

    Don't new navy ships and massive dry docks have multi compartments to prevent sinking these days?

    (wont get into the "human factor")
     
  2. JamesG123
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 486
    Likes: 55, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Columbus, GA

    JamesG123 Senior Member

    I guess that didn't buff right out...
     
  3. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 5,692
    Likes: 241, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1749
    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    No wonder they collided - the whole radio transcript is totally unintelligible - they may as well have been speaking Norwegian :)

    "The response from the Norwegian naval vessel is unclear. The individual on the radio acknowledges the request, but seems to offer an alternative course of action, using the word blokkene. Many have translated this, which literally means "blocks," to mean that whoever was at the helm of Helge Ingstad was concerned about hitting the shore had they turned to starboard. Blokkene is also reportedly a common Norwegian word for the port, or left side, of a ship."
     
    JamesG123 likes this.
  4. JamesG123
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 486
    Likes: 55, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Columbus, GA

    JamesG123 Senior Member

    Even google translate wet the bed and gave up trying.
     
  5. Rurudyne
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 1,122
    Likes: 29, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 155
    Location: North Texas

    Rurudyne Senior Member

  6. JosephT
    Joined: Jun 2009
    Posts: 786
    Likes: 81, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 218
    Location: Roaring Forties

    JosephT Senior Member

    Now that was a very costly navigation mistake. Hopefully they can re-float the vessel and salvage it somehow.
     
  7. JamesG123
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 486
    Likes: 55, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Columbus, GA

    JamesG123 Senior Member

    Emerson in seawater this long in a modern, probably aluminum, ship full of electronics? Complete write off.
     
    rwatson likes this.
  8. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 1,318
    Likes: 32, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 304
    Location: SF bay

    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    The main point of instruction when I went to riggers School the guys on the ground that rig construction crane loads was that all directions to the crane operator and operator you must be absolutely clearly only have one meaning. Likewise in 4th grade when we learned about Indian smoke signals. Then when I dabbled in computer programming it came up that you probably want to avoid zeros and O's because they can look the same likewise with number 1 and lowercase l or capital i if you are asking fickle customers to type in a password or other information that might get returned as error and irritate them.
     
  9. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 1,318
    Likes: 32, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 304
    Location: SF bay

    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    I also remember reading from professional truck driver school how there are certain time blocks as Vehicles approach each other during which of decision must be made. These are of course seconds or fractions of seconds it intersections. With ships there are several minutes. Not to mention lots of supposedly train people with nothing else to do for hours and hours beforehand. I have heard reports that the recent rash of US Navy collisions has been caused by excessive emphasis on political correct training and other nonsense but it still seems weird.
     
  10. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 1,318
    Likes: 32, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 304
    Location: SF bay

    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    It was supposed to be a super modern first of its class type of vessel. With all new newfangled everything everywhere. I guess they'll be able to use it as a training familiarization Hulk. Plus generations of Sea Cadets will get to reenact the Fateful moments in the most comic Fashion on the bridge. I'm nominating the captain for the Nobel Peace Prize. Maybe the John McCain honorable mention of the Nobel Peace Prize to be awarded to the professional soldier that puts the most military equipment of their own side out of action during the year preceding.
     
  11. keith66
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 325
    Likes: 19, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 168
    Location: Essex UK

    keith66 Senior Member

    Preliminary report on the accident is out, see here, Norwegian report blames shipbuilder for frigate sinking, watchstanders for collision https://navaltoday.com/2018/11/30/norwegian-report-blames-shipbuilder-for-frigate-sinking-watchstanders-for-collision/, It is pretty obvious that the frigate was at fault, the tanker was going 6.5 knots & attempted to alter course as much as she could & was doing 7.5 knots at time of collision. The frigate got confused with the shore lights of the terminal & made little attempt to alter course or slow down. The transcripts of the radio calls were in public domain within days.
    One theory was that the frigate had finished her exercise & the crew were "celebrating" rather too early as they went home.
     
  12. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 2,599
    Likes: 232, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    It could have been worse, a while back the Swedish warship Vasa foundered after sailing about 1,300 m (1,400 yd) into her maiden voyage . . :eek:
     
  13. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 1,318
    Likes: 32, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 304
    Location: SF bay

    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    Now they are saying these ships Water Tight compartments do not appear to be so.

    You'd think the first design requirement for a warship would be to be able to take a couple hull breaches and remain afloat without human intervention, and hopefully by purely passive means.

    Govts have been buying a lot of these and similar ships.

    First thing I noticed in pics where hole was torn open, was lots of longitudinal pipes both close to outside and low in the compartment.

    That should do two things:
    1)Create compartment-to-compartment flooding when through-pipes get even mildly impacted.
    2)Make any holes, especially holes in lower part of compartments, harder to repair due to all the pipes in the way.

    I'll address this and more in my upcoming Squidly-Diddly class battle-cruiser design.


    And why are nations that have their own advanced ship building ability buying navy ships from other nations? Russia trying to buy helicopter carriers from France and Norway buying frigates from Spain.

    I can understand if Thailand buys radar sets and engines from somewhere else but you'd think Russia and Norway could build their own hulls.
     
  14. Remmlinger
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 237
    Likes: 17, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 172
    Location: Germany

    Remmlinger engineer

    Nobody mentioned that the Norwegian Navy was proud that 4 out of 5 navigation officers were women.
    Norwegian warship accident raises questions on women in armed forces https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2018/11/20/norwegian-warship-accident-raises-questions-on-women-in-armed-fo.html
    "The crash and the subsequent sinking of the frigate has given rise to discussions on gender politics and political correctness in Norway."
    "Sound recordings and radar logs have revealed crude, almost incomprehensible, human errors made by the crew. According to experienced naval officers, the mistakes make the crew look amateurs."
     

  15. Rurudyne
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 1,122
    Likes: 29, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 155
    Location: North Texas

    Rurudyne Senior Member

    Unless it can be shown that those ladies were promoted without the skills, which I doubt happened, that's not going to go anywhere.

    Besides, maybe the guy was on duty at the time? And as we all know men are never right when women are around. *bada*boom*kisk*
     
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.