New Boat Building need help!

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by Kris_soflo, Jul 20, 2015.

  1. Kris_soflo
    Joined: Jul 2015
    Posts: 3
    Likes: 0, Points: 1, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: south florida

    Kris_soflo New Member

    Hello everyone
    So im starting to get into the new building process, i have found a mold that i want to start with. Im not by any means new to laying glass and building, but as far as going into a small production i definetly have some questions. Im starting with a flats boat, and this boat has been used by other manufacturers. Should i be looking for any paperwork with the molds as far as capacity ratings and things like that, that have already been done? I know for a MIC i need to get in contact with CG. Are there any pointers anyone can give for someone starting out?
    Thanks in advance
    Kris
     
  2. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 13,418
    Likes: 333, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    First of all, find out if you have the legal right to use the mold commercially; particularly if it has been used by other manufacturers
     
  3. Kris_soflo
    Joined: Jul 2015
    Posts: 3
    Likes: 0, Points: 1, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: south florida

    Kris_soflo New Member

    As far as i know, it was used by hoog, andros and ankona. How would someone go about finding thar kind of info, because im not to sure if the guy who has the mold now knows that info.
     
  4. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 13,418
    Likes: 333, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    You may need to research who the designer was and the builder of the mold. Both may have legal rights. Before starting a commercial venture, consulting a lawyer would be a good idea. Also, you can ask the seller of the mold to give you a guarantee that he has the legal rights to production.
     
  5. Ike
    Joined: Apr 2006
    Posts: 2,214
    Likes: 170, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1669
    Location: Washington

    Ike Senior Member

  6. Ike
    Joined: Apr 2006
    Posts: 2,214
    Likes: 170, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1669
    Location: Washington

    Ike Senior Member

    What Gonzo says is a valid concern. Some hull designs are protected by the Vessel Hull Design Protection Act. So you need to find out if you have rights to use this design. Consulting an attorney that knows about business law is a good idea. You might want to find out who the previous owners of the mold were and contact all of them to make sure you have the right to use it. A written release is best. An attorney can do that for you.
     
  7. Kris_soflo
    Joined: Jul 2015
    Posts: 3
    Likes: 0, Points: 1, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: south florida

    Kris_soflo New Member

    I am going to definitely do some research on the mold before i do some purchasing. Now let me ask you this, lets say that i cant find the info i need for this, can you change something about the design, like the console. Could you do that, or would you have to change something about the hull itself?
     
  8. Ike
    Joined: Apr 2006
    Posts: 2,214
    Likes: 170, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1669
    Location: Washington

    Ike Senior Member

    Well, you can and people have been doing that for decades, but that is exactly why the Vessel Hull protection Act was passed. Some states also have anti-splashing laws that prohibit copying a design. However, I would suspect that since this mold has been used by so many builders without any issues arising, that you won't have a problem. Actually my biggest concern would be the mold itself. Molds wear out. They can be refurbished but they are never quite as good as a new one and will develop problems with hulls sticking to the mold making it difficult to get the hull out, and damaging both the hull and the mold. You are going to have to completely refinish the inside of the mold before attempting to use it.
     
  9. Ike
    Joined: Apr 2006
    Posts: 2,214
    Likes: 170, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1669
    Location: Washington

    Ike Senior Member

    You could certainly look at boats that were previously made with his design for capacity ratings and horsepower, but I really wouldn't trust that. These can vary depending on HP rating and weight of the engine and how many people the builder wants to rate the boat for. Manufacturers sometimes downrate the HP so they can carry more people, or put in less flotation. If this boat is under twenty feet in length it will have to meet the USCG standards for capacity, horsepower and flotation. You should do your own calculations of this. The Folks at CG HQ will send you info on how to do it, or you can look at the Boat Builders Handbook at http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boatbuilders-handbook.php

    If the boat is 20 feet or more you don't have to follow the CG regs but you should use the ABYC (www.abycinc.org) standards for capacities, horsepower and flotation. They are voluntary but they are the industry standard and most boatbuilders use them and they help protect the builder in liability cases.
     
  10. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 4,310
    Likes: 188, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1485
    Location: Midcoast Maine

    DCockey Senior Member

    State anti-splashing laws were ruled unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court in Bonito Boats, Inc. v. Thunder Craft Boats, Inc. (1989) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonito_Boats,_Inc._v._Thunder_Craft_Boats,_Inc.

    The list of boats registered under the Vessel Hull Design Protection Act is available on the internet. http://copyright.gov/vessels/list/
     
  11. Ike
    Joined: Apr 2006
    Posts: 2,214
    Likes: 170, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1669
    Location: Washington

    Ike Senior Member

    Yep. I'm getting old. I forgot about the Bonito Boats case. I shouldn't have. I wrote the US Coast Guard's comments on the proposed Vessel Hull Protection Act. Frankly I still believe that it is largely not enforceable. The courts have held that many boat hull designs are not patentable simply because the basic design has been around forever. ( a little hyperbola there, but they have been around a long time) Some things are patentable such as Boston Whalers patent on their hull construction, but the basic design isn't because the idea behind the tri hull sea sled has been around long before we were born. There are others such as Delta Conic and VEC, but most basic hull shapes aren't patentable.

    That is why I said that he could more than likely use this hull without a problem. That mold has been in use for a long time by several builders so it is probably in the public domain, but a lawyer would be the one to determine that.

    The VHDPA is not a patent. It is a way of registering a hull design so that if someone does copy it and you want to sue them, you at least have something to show you did it before them. And that is the only means of enforcing the VHDPA. You have to bring suit. The Govt won't do it for you. It really has no teeth. And most boat builders simply don't have the bucks to pursue such a case. Only the big companies like Boston Whaler, Brunswick and a few others have the bucks and the staff lawyers.
     

  12. Ike
    Joined: Apr 2006
    Posts: 2,214
    Likes: 170, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1669
    Location: Washington

    Ike Senior Member

    Here is just one of the comments we made on the proposed VHDPA

    1. Sec 1201 (b) Definitions. Paragraph (1) a design is “original”. There are many who would argue that there is no such thing as an original design in the recreational boat business, that new designs are just variations on old designs, and most of the designs touted as original have been tried before. This does not apply to large commercial vessels where significant design innovations have been made.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.