New Age Trawler/Motorsailer; Kite assisted PowerYacht

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by brian eiland, Nov 20, 2007.

  1. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    From my observations of the joy-riders in the "surf" at the mouth of the Maroochy River I must solidly agree with Munter, Too many control issues to be resolved as yet for significant upwind work.

    Brian I hope your inventive attitude and developments continue & you can resolve the upwind issues for say a 40ft cat! I would like that as an alternative motive force, else the "hitch-hiker" form will have to suffice for me. Thanks.
     
  2. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    How many sqm of kite would you say you'd need for your foreseen speed, asuming 1kW/sqm as mean power?
     
  3. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Guillermo, I hope that Brian Eiland can answer that as I have only got to the "its interesting stage & what are the control/performance issues". . The "joy riders" seem to have up to 15 sq metres....?
     
  4. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    The credit should go to Guillermo who brought it to my attention per my notation in the originally posting: "Brian: You should try this also for your big game fishing catamaran" at posting #285

    I just took up the banner, and hope to run with it.


    Sorry guys, I do not know this sqm figure yet myself. I would assume there will be a considerable range of possibilties depending upon the clients desire to split the wind verses diesel capabilities, and his desire to fly the kite in more complicated patterns, or in more demanding conditions...both more costly.

    The basic catamaran platform is extremely stable to carry a relatively large kite without concern for lift-off or capsize, and the configuration of the basic ship might well be the same for a smaller or larger kite. So the client might wish to play it conservative to start with, and only need to increase the kite size in order to upgrade, without a redesign or rebuild of the vessel.

    I'm presently looking at an existing production 50' catamaran that might well lend itself to the initial vessel, or even an existing used vessel. Just need that bold adventuresome client/sailor willing to experiment with his new power cat
     
  5. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Maiden Voyage of SkySails Vessel

    A cargo ship has set off from Bremen to Venezuela to gain first-hand experience being towed partly by wind power. The newly built cargo vessel was towed by wind propulsion for the first time in the North Sea this month. The 160m2 SkySail supported the main engine of the 132m long Carrier MS “Beluga SkySails” of the Bremen-based Beluga Shipping with approx. five tons of tractive force at a low wind speed.

    The invention is that of a Hamburg-based company SkySails GmbH & Co.

    “The maiden voyage marks the beginning of the practical testing during regular shipping operations of the SkySails-System. During the next few months we will finally be able to prove that our technology works in practice und significantly reduces fuel consumption and emissions,” says Stephan Wrage, Managing Director, SkySails.

    Parallel and in addition to the practical tests on the MS “Beluga SkySails”, the SkySails technology is advanced and optimized for series production readiness on further ships.

    Stephan Brabeck, Technical Manager at SkySails: “Certainly, the daily routine at sea will still bear many challenges for SkySails. It is thus now particularly important to raise the manageability and robustness of the system to the level demanded by our customers. We will have to face up to many challenges and in the process learn many very valuable lessons.”

    The shipping company and the manufacturer calculate that by using the towing kite system, a ship’s average annual fuel costs can be reduced by between 10% and 35%, depending on the prevailing wind conditions. Under optimal wind conditions, SkySails estimates that fuel consumption can sometimes be cut by up to 50%. The first results are to be expected in the next few months.

    “Interest in the SkySails technology among shipping companies from all over the world was already high before, but especially during the last year and in light of the rising oil prices it has increased considerably,” states founder of the company Stephan Wrage.

    They hope the state-of-the-art kite will help reduce carbon dioxide emissions, as it tugs the ship.Fuel burnt by ships accounts for 4% of global CO2 emissions - twice as much as the aviation industry produces.
     
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  6. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Thank you sir, I will keep my eye on developments in this thread.
     
  7. mark424x
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    mark424x Junior Member

    Vmg

    I wonder if anyone could comment on the ability to get any upwind VMG out of such a kite rig on a power boat hull. I can't image you'd get much dynamic lift from a cruiser like a hatteras/defever/navigator, but I wonder if you were in a displacement power catamaran Tennant/PDQ/MaineCat or maybe even a traditional trawler, DDuck, if you'd get enough lift to get to 60 deg to windward.

    In addition to added power, the additional roll stability would be an added value.

    Here on the US West coast, you could pop your kite in Alaska and ride it south to Panama. Even the sailboats mostly power going north.
     
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  8. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    mark424x,
    Hi All I can suggest is you try it and be a net hero by posting info.... Do they have those kite boarders getting air when there is a nice breeze and a bit of chop from which to launch? they are about 15m2 for the big light air wings which you could trial on your next cruise - If not as good as you would like can be sold to a wind-surfer in California etc

    All I can do is wish you well and every success...
     
  9. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Did you have a look here:
    http://www.skysails.info/fileadmin/user_upload/Pressedownload/Dokumente/EN_Technology_Information.pdf
    ...specifically page 3
     
  10. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Maybe time to re-review this YouTube reference that Guillermo brought to us back in posting #9

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnACybMhPs4&NR=1

    http://www.kiteforsail.com/
     
  11. mark424x
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    mark424x Junior Member

    Thanks, yes. As I understand it, the only way to get close to a beam reach (or higher) is to have hydrodynamic lift from a keel or the underbody shape of the hull. My assumption was that you'd have to modify a power monohull to get any appreciable lift, but was hoping that a displacement power cat might have enough lift from the slender hulls. But that is a complete intuitive guess.
     
  12. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Thanks Brian, advances are being made - so good to see
     
  13. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    So the Beluga SkySails has now crossed the Atlantic but they are not releasing any information on performance until its "properly evaluated"??? This encourages my skepticism. They claim a 3-5 year payback period for the system, which costs approximately half a million euros. They do not state what is included in that cost. Does it include financing cost? Additional insurance? Increased manning certification? What is the maintenance and down time really going to amount to? If the ship costs more to purchase and operate, shipping costs go up, is that included in their costing?

    What does the Beluga SkySails carry anyway? Why not totally eliminate the need for that transportation? Would that not be even more environmentally friendly?
     
  14. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Tad,
    I don't think I would be in a GREAT rush to release this raw data yet if it were me...particularly with the clientel they are appealing too...the big commercial shipping guys.

    One wrong move and you could turn them off to continued and future developments. I've seen a few advanced ideas fail as a result of premature hype.

    Are you suggesting that all small ships such as inter-island traders be scrapped in favor of big ships??

    I found it interesting that the remains of the racing trimaran Groupama were being shipped back to France from New Zealand on a relatively small ship carring fresh produce to Holland I believe.
     

  15. Munter
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    Munter Amateur

    Tad - minimisaiton is a good idea but it should be done in parrallel with efficiency improving technologies. Some things will still need to be transported.
    I wonder if oil at $110/b will be enough to change the status quo?
     
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