Need opinion about old design for a small Russian sailboat

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Michail, Aug 22, 2011.

  1. Michail
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Michail Junior Member

    I am planning to build a small 16 to 18' boat which I pretend to sail in Chile (open ocean, short passages). What I am looking for is a sturdy, safe boat which may be somewhat slower than average for reduced crew (1-2).

    I have come across a Russian design from 1974 for a 4.3 m yacht the contours of which seem to be OK for the purpose.

    I plan to scale it up by about 15 % and also increase somewhat the depth of the keel (by additional 15 cm.) for additional stability (would love to do more, but it must be easily trailarable).

    I would like to get some opinion as to the overall design and whether it is morally not too "old".

    I have looked into "free" plans on English speaking sites, but most of them are really crappy. Russians were quite active in developping DIY boat plans up to the late 80' with very detailed construction instructions (albeit in Russian), so I kind of trust them.

    http://www.vodnyimir.ru/Plastmassovaya_mini_yahta_Kalan.html
     

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  2. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

    In the late 60s, there was a Canadian couple who cruised the Caribbean for three years in a 14' Peephen. He was 5'2" and she was 4'10". Welcome to the forum.
     
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  3. Michail
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    Michail Junior Member

    That is the idea

    I am not that extreme, so I would limit passages to about a week or two max. The problem in Chile is that in the south you can get extreme weather.

    By the way, the idea of constructing a boat rather than buying is two fold:
    in Chile there are no cheap sailboats (used or new), used 18' costs at least 12.000 USD, so unlike USA where you can get a decent 20 - 22' for less than 4.000 USD it is out of question here.

    Also, the smaller sailboats available here are usually not seaworthy, they either lack the keel or are a compromise...
     
  4. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

  5. Stumble
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    Stumble Senior Member

    You might want to look into the cost of shipping. If you can find a boat that could be squeezed into a 40' container the shipping cost is pretty reasonable. Even deck cargo isn't that bad compared to the price of a boat. You could also look in Panama and bring it down on it's own hull. There are a lot of boats that go down to do the canal, then get left/abandoned/sold there.
     
  6. rberrey
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    rberrey Senior Member

    Adelie 16 at bateau.com might fit your needs, it was designed for blue water. The price of plans are a small part of the overall cost. rick
     
  7. Michail
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    Michail Junior Member

    Adelie plans - junk?

    Yes, I have seen those plans for Adelie 16 and 18.

    They did not convince me.

    In the first place, the rigging is very suspcious - I did not like too much the fully battened sail. And if someone seriously proposes to use the chinese style sail, I think that that person has little to do with serious boat designing of seagoing vessels. The idea of an extension pole for jib sail seems also weird to me (not to speak about being totally out of balance with respect to waterline pressure point - this whole idea of extension pole might work only on full courses).

    In the second place, I tend to incline towards reinforced fiberglass construction on male form, not stitch and glue. I think that round forms are much better (slightly faster) and safer in heavier sea (maybe I am wrong). Marine grade plywood is quite expensive here in Chile and the quality may not be up to standard, so it is safer to go with the fiberglass.

    My general impression of Bateau designs was that they are geared for those who love construction, not sailing.

    I liked Vagabond 18' more, but still have doubts about it.

    However, if someone really built one of these, I would appreciate any input on real seaworthiness of these boats.
     
  8. Rick Tyler
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    Rick Tyler Defenstrator in chief

    The best place to ask that question is on bateau2.com, which is the Bateau builder's forum. Jacques Mertens has crossed oceans under sail, and has a pretty good idea of what it takes to make boats useful within the context of what amateur builders can achieve. You should state your concerns on his forum -- he'll answer.

    For what it's worth, no 16-footer is really a blue water cruiser, but some are capable of short coastwise trips, which is what I think you want, right?
     
  9. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    What is your sailing experience? The weather in southern Chile, close to Cape Horn is one of the most extreme in the world.
     
  10. Michail
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    Michail Junior Member

    I have sailed a lot up to some 20 years ago, but not extreme (first inland lakes in Austria and then moved to Korea). In Korea, Pusan I have sailed on J24, Laser, and occasionally on larger cruiser.

    I kind of can not tolerate team work, so I always prefered sailing alone, at best with a girlfriend, and for this reason frankly I prefered sailing Laser to J24
    Now I plan to retake sailing in Chile (I live here since 1995 and love the country and mountains).

    My idea is to start soft at latitude 40, especially the somewhat protected fjiords and then see if I can push the limits more to the south.
     
  11. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    Chinese lug has proven itself for several thousand years in seagoing vessels so I don't know how you can so easily disparage it as being unseaworthy other than to demonstrate ignorance or prejudice, I'm not sure which.
    The boat is pic has been in every kind of weather and sea condition there is up to force 10 and worked very well.
    However, the main advantage of the type is being able to handle a very large sail like the 1000 sq. ft. one here with a small crew (1) and it really does not make a lot of sense for anything under 300 sq ft.
    I agree with the poster above about buying a boat that will fit in a shipping container and going sailing instead of building.
    Also that there are huge numbers of excellent home built designs that would make a good cruiser of the Chilean fiords.
    An English yawl that just came through the NW passage is here in town and I discussed a former voyage with its Captain.
    Several years ago he and his wife sailed from UK, through the Panama Canal, down the west coast of So. America, cruised Chile, went around Cape Horn, cruised Argentina and the East coast, then back to UK.
    With the large tides, I would want something that could take the ground well. Due to the tremendous isolation and lack of services, something that packs large amounts of food, water and fuel without going too far below its lines is also desirable. Lots of chain for deep anchorages.
    Something that sails well in light airs, with a rig that is quickly reduced to deal with the strong downdrafts that come roaring out of canyons.
     

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  12. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    I guess that Russian boat is OK. But why ? There is a tremendous variety of traditional, seaworthy, simple to build working craft plans available.

    Why built a featureless , faceless boat when for the same amount of money and time you can built a proud Lugger or a Tancock ?
     

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  13. Michail
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    Michail Junior Member

    chinese junk sail

    As far as my aversion to chinese style rigging, I think that is my prejudice. I always sailed on standard, more or less modern boats, and it is difficult to change one's attitude.

    The idea about Panama never ocurred to me, but thinking well about it, it may be well feasable to get a boat shipped to Chile. However considering the hassle (going there, buying boat, importing it (with corresponding duties), etc. it may come up even or close to even in terms of costs.

    Frankly, I am not that fanatic of building, but rather sailing, although it may well be worth the experience (in my life I built one house, one warehouse, one trailer, and one road - so why not one boat; but I do not want to dedicate my life to this - it must be a relatively quick project for a couple of months, not for years.)
     
  14. rasorinc
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    rasorinc Senior Member


  15. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

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