Naval architects and designers are a waste of money!

Sorry: no thread link. Let me type during the night. Result will be presented.

 

That ***** has a really ugly squat. Looks like she's prepared to take a dive.

The lines on the dive platform do not at all correspond to what the hull is telling me -- they seem to be going in opposite directions.

 

The making of this boat is a little case sensitive. I was personally involved and on my parting the designer and yard owner shouted that he will have me killed.
When I use the term designer, because I want to avoid offending language: to all REAL designers: please forgive me to raise the impression of similarities to you.
On 30th Aug. 2007 the contract for the vessel was signed, after the owner had turned up numerous times to discuss his project:

Text and picture are from the original building contract:

Type of Vessel - Catamaran boat.
Total Displacement - Est. 22,000 Kg

Hull Material - Fiberglass with Polyester, reinforced with PE Honeycomb
and PVEA under water line
Deck Base material - Fiberglass with Polyester, reinforced with PE Honeycomb

Length Overall - 1,600 cm (One six Zero Zero cm) - include moulded part of swim platform
Beam Overall - 820 cm (Eight Two Zero cm)

Keel to Main deck - <220 cm
Waterline to Main Deck height - >120 cm Freeboard (Actual deck 30cm above deck hull)
Waterline to Upper Deck height - N/A
Waterline to Fly deck height - >300 cm
Overall Height - 635 cm

Floor cover - Uncovered FRP
Decoration level - Budget Ferry

Main Propulsion - Diesel Inboard Engine with dual prop stern drive
Engine Type - 2 x Volvo Inboard Diesel Marine D7C TA
Engine Size - 2 x 265 Hp

Fuel tank volume - 2 x 800 liter
Water tank volume - 1x 200 liter

Purpose for Vessel - Passenger Ferry
Passengers - Up to 62 passengers plus crew of 2 people.
Payload maximum - 8,000 Kg including fuel and water
Country for Registration - Kingdom of Thailand

The contract does not mention operation speed; but from the beginning speed had been an issue. The designer repeatedly ‘promised’ well above 24 knots.

At present the boat is close to its second launch.

The design and calculations for the boat were all set up by the company owner, who is a person with a Rhino program, with an investor who believed his words and with a good talent of speech to make people believe what he says - - - for a while (in one of his previous careers he was a Christian preacher (other careers include: policeman, computer shop owner, gemstone digger, hotel resort owner(this information is given by himself and followingly can be a another lie)))

I you like to know more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz0qqZtZKrY

The boat owner is a person who is very much concerned in the safety of this vessel. During the project he has initiateded numerous additions: Waterproof bulkheads, Fire fighting system, life rafts, etc. He meanwhile has taken back the boat and executed alterations upon his own initiative. See this at a later stage.
In this course the boat underwent an ‘evolution’.

Initially, the entire boat has been made of Honeycomb sandwich and this includes the keel area. The flat panels were prepared separately, the hulls and bridge deck were laminated in moulds. For vacuum bagging the company used household vacuum cleaners.

At one stage it was decided that the motors will be Hyundai HD 611 motors, 360 HP each. Compared to the Volvos (initially) they were less compact and so there was not longer enough space in the hulls, which now were modified to fit in width.
There were also modifications in the passenger cabin layout.

When the bodywork was already done, I unfortunately joined this company. At that time there was a discussion going about the draft: The boat’s operational area is extremely shallow. So the designer had reacted with the next alteration: the stern drive units were cancelled. Instead, there was an extension of the hulls now, to place the engines in; that was combined with a shaft drive. What on the photo mistakenly looks like a diving platform, is this extension. Freeboard there is kept low because of the mooring situation.

For making the extensions, the workfloor never had seen a drawing. The designer advised personally and with the help of gestures and plywood sheets. The general idea was to utilize concave panel sections (sic!).
The foreman in charge and me objected to this and partly got through, but were not given sufficient time to work out the shape of the extensions. At least a bit of streamlining was possible.

From the side of the customer there were more additions: he had meanwhile hired a skipper from Australia, who contributed ideas especially regarding safety. These suggestions made sense, but had not been considered in the initial planning of the boat.

Finally, one day the boat was launched.
The trim, nose down, was obvious right then. On a first test trial we could not go beyond 14 knots. The owner wasn’t happy.
Along with some other required corrections, it was agreed to take the boat back and to modify.
Still on the water, we tested the mis-trim: A forklift pulled the bows up until the floating level was correct. A scale showed the load with about 1400 kg. That is not really scientific, but was all we had that time.

On this last haul the boat was damaged. Out of the holes dripped diesel fuel for days, although the tanks had been pumped empty. It was found that the manufacturer had not installed steel tanks as was specified in the building contract, but simply separated hull compartments as tanks. From the holes in the hulls it was obvious that the honeycomb core was not fully touching the laminates and the gaps became fuel lines.

The designer came up with an idea to fix the speed issue, but the owner was not convinced.

By that time two other projects went down the drain and the company ran out of money. During that time I was much busy with email exchange to the investor in Saudi Arabia: they had started to ask questions.
I still have all the emails and one day I might publish a book.

After the owner and the designer could not come to terms the cooperation fell apart.
Together with a lot of fingerpointing, humiliation and practical violence I found a way out of the scene. At last the owner took back the boat as it was, organized the corrections himself.
He finally could be convinced that the hull shape was the issue and so the plan was to remove the hulls and replace them by a set that works.

He set up a team consisting of the former workshop manager in charge for the practical side, of me to re-design the hull shape and structural calculations, of one other designer (in Australia) to control my own work and add ideas, and a couple of specialists were also involved when it came to details like propellers etc.

During the removal of the old hulls it was found that in the fore collision area there had been added cement – as a prevention and with no calculation behind.

We could have hired the a local designer, which was my initial suggestion, but the man refused to touch the ****-up.
Alik: that was wise of you!

My own ‘design’ was accepted at last, but the bow sections were altered a little while making them.

Meanwhile the boat seems to be finished so far. I received photos the other day, but hesitate to post them unless the owner agrees.

The new hulls have a solid keel laminate, the rest is a foam composite supported by stringers and frames.

The boat was not yet on the water and still needs to perform correctly. Honestly: I feel nervous; although I had applied all my present knowledge as best as I could.

It was not yet said until now, that parallel to this boat, a second one was made with the same procedure. The group of owners also had taken out the boat; my last information from THEM is a top speed around 10 knots…

In this report I tried to remain as neutral as possible.
Yet, there will be details missing.
Q&A please.
(If I do not reply, the original designer has found a way to find me )

 

HakimKlunker,

Reading that story has caused me the same ugly feeling in the guts one usually experiences while watching a tense psyco-horror movie...

That's one ugly story, from both technical and human point of view. My best wishes for the upcoming launch of the Ver. 2.0 of the boat.

 

Yep thank you.
The bad psychologic part was actually left out. No one would believe it anyway.
After high school I was considering to study psychology but did not, because I did not want to spend the rest of my life with the mentally disturbed.
I could not know that I meet them all when I become a boat builder - at much lower income

 

First results

For anyone interested: After modifications the boat was tested now and made 22 knots without passengers. I feel relieved

 

I just read this thread over again. Reminds me of my first home built boat. Didn't know much about design or building but I went ahead and it turned out fine. Pretty little thing and it floated too. The next one was not so pretty but it was still an improvement on the first one as it floated the right side up. Until I got in it, that is. Number 3 actually floated with me in it but it made a lot of noise as it slogged through the water at about half the expected speed. Baby steps ...

Those early boats were all "learning experiences" but at least I had the sense to make them cheap and small enough to fit into a garbage bag when they were cut up for disposal. At least I had sense enough to sneak down to the lake when nobody else was around to avoid embarrassment on launch days! No incriminating photos on the Net! These days I launch my boats with other people looking on - but they're still small.

 

Congrats ! That was a close one .. thx for sharing this sensitive experience....

Ancient you tried at your own, boat at your own safety and learned from it ....
I would have done the same ... (God forbid i ever design my boat )

 

Thank you.
My very first project was the modification of an inflatable into a sailboat. It never left the attic. I was 12.
What can I say? : As long as we survive our creations, it really can be fun to make boats and yachts

 

Has anyone heard from the steel boat responsible for the original thread?

Google has cleared it's cache so the woodenboat-thread is now lost.

L

 

There was an archive of the site posted several times -- the last one I saw worked.

 

That story is a real 'must read' for self-confident amateur 'designers' and 'builders'. But seems like the owner of that boat does not want it to be so famous

 

Hakim, That's funny. That was my first design also, (12 years old here too) but I built mine in the front yard. (I didn't ask dad if I could use the inflatable.) I spent a lot of time and effort. It looked like a sailboat when I was done. (Sitting on the ground). My father came home took one look at it and said "That won't work, take it apart". I still think we should have taken it down to the lake and tested it, it would have been a good learning experience even though it would have no doubt failed.

 

Another launching of superyacht:



http://www.krobkruakao.com/ข่าว/30735/สมุทรสาคร-เรือยอร์ชสุดหรูมูลค่าพันล้านพลิกคว่ำจมน้ำ.html

 

Ship stability - that big, dark, unkown territory for so many.

Impressive photo, Alik. Could you please translate for us the main lines of this story?