My objections to Zero's new Health care plan.

This is the basic problem with your beloved socialism; you have to rob from one group to support some other group. You have to abolish property rights for all in order to establish socialism. You also have to destroy the right of an individual to profit from his own labors; in effect the laborer no longer even own his own labor! This is the essence of slavery; one man works while another receives the benefit from that work.

Before you take the (usual) idiot's position on this point, which would be to say that working for a wage is therefore slavery, try to conceive of the concept of a voluntary contract, whereby two persons agree to an exchange of labor for currency; that is not slavery.

Slavery is when the one doing the labor has NO CHOICE but to relinquish the benefit of his labor to another under the threat of violence, like fines and imprisonment.

They've already run into this legal dilemma in Canada, where doctors there asserted that if Canada is truly a free country (and it does profess that it is), then doctors own their own labor, and the government cannot assert exclusive ownership of the labor for the sole use through Health Canada because that would be slavery. The courts had to agree with the doctors. If we are ever in that position here, the courts will have to rule the same way and even more so, given the wording and intent of the 13th amendment to our constitution.




Jimbo

 

you have no damn rights unless i agree you do, if i dont agree and if i can take by force from you what i want then its mine, unless you call on the society to help you exercise your socially granted rights, period.


otherwise, if i can take it from you its mine and what the hell you going to do about it and dont tell me your going to get your gun because i may have a better gun and i may be better at using it

and what i just said has nothing to do with healthcare or socialism, just about your god given rights that i trample on

 

rights are a social compact, thats why we have a constitution and laws to ensure our rights and punish those that transgress them

my whole point being you have no rights but those agreed upon by the society you live in

different societies different concepts of rights

 

I understand what you meant.

What I was meaning was nothing has changed, you still govern your country on 300 year old ideology. Amazing!!!
Consiquently your rhetoric reflects that in so much as "what you going to do about it, I got a bigger gun".

As you say In Us you feel you have no protection from your government so you carry a gun so you can protect yourself.

I understand how you got to this position but I have no idea of how you can get out of it.

A constitution of a little less than 300 years isnt helping except for those who want to stick in old times like the Taliban.

Why don't you use a new constitution relevant to the time you live in.

You are in a desperate state and a new start is whats needed. A whole new America.

I can not even imagine how that could happen.

 

the constitution as written is not the constitution we follow

thats why we keep reinterpreting it, to make it relevant to the needs of today

even those that wrote didnt follow what they wrote, how else can you explain slavery

today there seems to be a individual right to guns, when in fact at the time the constitution was written there were whole classes of people that couldnt own guns but try telling that to the gun nuts

the whole gist is that society defines what rights we have, not the individual

so if laws are passed granting health care to everybody then everybody has a right to health care, dont like it move to Zimbabwe im sure they dont have universal health care.

 

Wardd,
Perhaps in the interest of our common obsession, boats, we should bring this thread to a close and agree to disagree.

I understand that the cost of health insurance is a problem for almost everyone and you are willing to trade more government control for less liberty if there is a chance that somehow the rules of economics can be repealed.

Not all of your fellow Americans feel the same way you do and they have a stake in all of this too. Rather then them moving to Zimbabwe perhaps it would be more convenient if the small minority of legal American citizens without the means or desire to participate in our system as it now exists could move to Canada. Common culture, language, etc. much less upheival(sic) that way.

 

Well thats the way to fix it, don't talk about it.

? I think I know now why your in such a mess, but lets not talk about it ,--it might go away.
Agree to disagree? you gotta be kidding.

Did you click onto this thread or did you accidentaly knock the key board with you elbow?

 

Isn't that just the same with health insurances? Everybody having to pay their share of the costs and someone staying healthy until drops death after a stroke is robbed.. Not to mention how the private physicians rob with astonomical fees.. Anyway nothing wrong being wealthy, but becoming a millionaire just practicing medicine

 

Frosty,
I posted once at the beginning of this thread and have refrained from posting further because I hate to see pointless political dissent lead to hard feelings at this place, which I treasure. Not being an American it is understandable that you don't have a complete grasp of the nuances of our Constitution nor appreciate how unique it is. We are not a perfect nation, such a thing does not exist. But we have accomplished much good in the world and have asked for very little in return. Imagine if will what the world, what your personal world, would be like if we did not exist.

Wardd,
Your remarks regarding the 3/5 compromise either reflect a poor understanding of US history or intellectual dishonesty. I think everyone here has a pretty good idea about your position on health care. Like minded individuals are already convinced but you are not making much of a case for the rest of us. Why not climb out of the hole and lay down your shovel?

 

Peace in our time

" But we have accomplished much good in the world and have asked for very little in return. Imagine if will what the world, what your personal world, would be like if we did not exist.

Like minded individuals are already convinced but you are not making much of a case for the rest of us. Why not climb out of the hole and lay down your shovel?[/QUOTE]"

Tolly Wally

Great stuff, The USA has saved most of the countries on the planet including mine, some several times, and is hated for it, France comes to mind.

If the USA is not around to be the peace maker, yes PEACE, then it's only a matter of time till some nice group like Wards revired Bathest party does the world domination thing again.

That's why we don't want any politicians R OR D to grab any more power not given to them in the constitution.

Brad

 

tolly, my point is that the constitution wasnt then nor is now perfect,but it has to be interpreted in a way that fits the conditions of today and that hopefully most can agree on, or at least accept and get on with our lives, at best its all compromise

 

aw man, did you have to trash skittles?

 

Your constitution, like ours is NOT relevant to "modern society" as it has had its original intentions destroyed by successive legal decisions to the benefit of vested interests... It is a "contract" whose time and usefulness has well and truly expired - - - as has current USA because it owes more than all the tangible assets in the flipping world...

Some of you are almost certifiable with analysis of some of the drivel so earnestly sprouted forth in some threads, but it is fun and keeps the brain active, for some of us bored, old farts

 

i useta till now