MSA surface/tunel drive

Discussion in 'Surface Drives' started by IMP-ish, Apr 2, 2012.

  1. IMP-ish
    Joined: Jan 2011
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    IMP-ish powerboater

    Anyone here have experience running a MSA surface/tunnel drive on their boat?
     
  2. sinus
    Joined: Feb 2008
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    sinus Junior Member

    Hello;


    We have it on our prototype boat. Until today we made only few hours, but succesfoully hours.

    Two years ago we visited MSA company and they give us Spyder boat for test.
    With:
    - 1.850 kg empty
    - 8,1 HO engine
    - Maximus 26 or 28 (I do not remember)
    - 2 passangers plus driver
    We fly 78 mph - gps and than it is limiter of engine start to work. I belive that with one or two inch more pitch we would go to the 81-83 mph. (I do not belive on more than 70-74 mph with Z drive, better less.)
    Acceleration it is crazzy good! MSA ventilated at start and when angine come to the ca 2.500 rpm, it made hard grip. Boat fly out from water almost horizontally.
    Ride it is really smoth with out of "paddle whell" vibrations.

    When we come back we buy one pcs emediatelly and we will put it on all our custom maded boats. It bring to much benefits to ignore it! It is like additionally perhaps even 25% or more power in compare with Z drive and you do not need 2 drives to compensate chine walk troubles.

    Durability? I do not know, on the papers fantastics. oil change after 300 hours for example.
    But this sommer we will made at least 400 test hours to find much as possible failures on boat. After this tests we will be able to give this answer too.
     
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  3. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Congratulations on being able to contact MSA. I was not able to, and what information I had did not make contact either.

    25% improvement is fantastic and unbelievable.
     
  4. sinus
    Joined: Feb 2008
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    sinus Junior Member

    O.K., I write perhaps 25%.

    If you put on BAM Sped Calculato:
    - 400 hp
    - 260 coef.
    - 4.000 pound
    You recieve 82 mph

    Than you go down with power to recieve 72 mph and it is at 307 hp.


    It could be that it is perhaps 15% or 20%, but 4.000 pounds heavy Stynger ride with 8,1 HO (or "same size" Volvo Penta) round of 72 mph and it i same size boat like Spyder. Perhaps it is Spyder even bigger.


    I have always succes to contacts MSA by phone or e-mail, strange.

    We buy this drive, until today we satisfied, but we have almost zero experiences with and we would like to use them in future.

    Please tell me what bad infos you hear round of it, I would like to hear it like cusstomer. It will be good by PM too. We put lot of money in our project and...
    It is hard to find any bad or good infos round of this drive. I am find something in one German forum, but not a lot. What I read, they happy with drive.
     
  5. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    Anybody have a link or pictures ?
     
  6. sinus
    Joined: Feb 2008
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    sinus Junior Member

  7. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    The first link would not open, I waited 30 seconds.

    Yes I saw the unit, it appears to use a conventional propeller in a surface drive situation, its performance is truly unbelievable buf if true it is a break through in boat drives.

    By the look of that picture I would guess that is a not a surface prop.
     
  8. sinus
    Joined: Feb 2008
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    sinus Junior Member


    No, it is surface drive. When you trim it out for optimum speed, it is only bottom 1/3 prop under hull in water, rest it is up. This I am 100% sure. We check trim position and when we have boat on trailer, we measure it and shaft it is really a lot higher than water.
    Only sharph cone for cooling water pick up and bottom 1/3 prop it is on the water, rest is all up. You must take care when you want to stop fast for example. It is not enough to slow down with trottle. If you not trim it down, boat do not want to stop, it flight like flat stone in next few hundered meters.
    Probably becouse of cover you could succesfouly use classic inox props. It work well and smoth. This we tested enough to tell you from first hand. I do not remmember which type props they suggest. It is something like PT5..., later I go to check what we have on boat. This props have better results like all other on MSA drive they said.
     
  9. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Yes it is a surface drive --thats not in dispute, but the prop does not seem to be from the opicture.
     
  10. sinus
    Joined: Feb 2008
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    sinus Junior Member

    Jah, o.k., you in right.
    One of benefits it is good working with classic high speed inox props, it is not so expencive... This "tunnel" made all happening much more smoth and at least for power less than 1.000 hp made specially surface props no benefits. Mr. Sand told me when must go on surface props, but I am forget this.
    If you like, you could have roster taill like at other surface props, but if you want efficiency you use this energy for thrust.
     
  11. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    Oh, I have seen these before. But these are not a tunnel drive. It is an I/O with a short leg and a surface drive prop. I don't think the plate on top does anything except to reduce rooster tail. They seem a short than a Anderson, the design is closer to a Levi design. It seems to have a straight shaft, so no gearing.
     
  12. sinus
    Joined: Feb 2008
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    sinus Junior Member

    No!

    It is tunel drive, shaft it is horisontal, to put it down it is chain gear. It is easy to trim and trim work good like at outboard engine. On foto it is in fully down position.
    Look ventialted chanel back on top. There come air inside to ventilate prop until engine reach good torque.

    I am not experienced, but in my oppinion it is much more sophisticated than classic surface drives. Never the less they use them lot of years for bigger boats. When I went company, I see one really big drive connescted on few Mega wats gas turbine, probably for tug boat.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    Not a tunnel... A tunnel is cut under hull of boat. These units not good for tug. They work for speed not pulling.
     
  14. sinus
    Joined: Feb 2008
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    sinus Junior Member


  15. baeckmo
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Location: Sweden

    baeckmo Hydrodynamics

    A couple of years ago, the SARO/MSA-drive was introduced in Norway, and a few installations made. Unfortunately, they were not altogether successful.

    First, the performance "in real life" was compromized because too small drives/props were selected, resulting in overloading of propeller blade surfaces with reduced thrust and efficiency as consequences. Typically, they did not manage to get over the hump with a decent load onboard. My guess was that the "undersizing" was caused by someone who tried to hold investment costs down; those drives are/were quite expensive in comparison.

    Second, the surface preparation did not cope with saltwater corrosion. I saw a couple of drives after a few seasons in the water, and there certainly were corrosion problems. There are several metals involved, and in those early units at least, it looked like there was nothing stopping galvanic currents.

    Eventually, I was told the Norwegian agent had enough. This is not to say that those drives are bad per se, but that performance evaluation must be done with realistic loads in realistic environments.
     
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