Modify Original Sailplan Question

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Hobiesailor, Jun 24, 2009.

  1. Hobiesailor
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Hobiesailor New Member

    I have a 32' Center Cockpit O'day (bermuda rig sloop with roller furling added by previous owner). I'm interested in doing two major mods to this boat (original equipment except as noted above). 1) I will re-route all halyards/control lines (not sheets) to cockpit through addition of sufficient blocks/line guides/line clamps/cleats/winches to eliminate the nesessity to work at the mast--this mod is well within my capabilities as an engineer and boat tinkerer/maintainer.
    2) (Not something I'm comfortable with just sketching & building) I want to add a bowsprit (~3'), hang a re-worked RF genoa from that point and anchor a fractional stormsail stay just aft of the anchor rode well (~3' aft of bow). This change will result in a primary RF genoa (135 - 150%) and an RF Yankee-cut/storm jib inside of the genny. Net gain to me is a big genny to cruise on and a smaller/non-visibility restricting jib when necessary for crowded/de-powered conditions.

    I've been sailing the current rig for a year now and taken careful note of some of the changes in sailplan, foresail arrangement, upgrades and applications of technology that are evident all around me.

    The Bottom Line: The addition of a bowsprit to a hull design that doesn't include such a feature requires careful design practices--don't mind paying a qualified nautical engineer for the final--but at this point in my pre-decision analysis, I don't have enough information regarding constraints, pitfalls, considerations, observations, etc., to feel that I can discuss this concept intelligently with said engineer.

    I reach out to this forum for those necessary and essential cautions, notes and warnings that I need to consider when I engage with the engineer.

    BTW: Grew up on monohulls of the same vintage as the one I now own--also operate a pretty extensive 'family fleet' of beachcats (four boats) for the kids, hence the screen name. The 'cats are for fun & speed, the cruiser is because I'm a 'baby boomer' that wants to sit back and cruise--after all, it's five o'clock somewhere . . .

    Thanks for constructive responses in advance.

    fair winds and following seas
     
  2. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    My recollections of that boat are a moderate D/L (250's) and SA/D (15's), but reasonable balance. The boat certainly could use the added area, but you may want a fatter roach main as well, to balance out the longer foot of the fore triangle. Increasing the size of the fore triangle could possibly force the helm to go lee on you.

    These were also available as a ketch if I'm remembering the boat right. If the helm still will not balance, you could install a small mizzen of yawl proportions to balance things out.

    Is there a reason you want this sprit?
     
  3. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    Six feet of space isn't a whole lot to allow the genny to come around. Are you making the inner stay detachable?
    You can avoid whisker stays by using a stout and wide sprit and anchoring it well at the stem and the aftmost point. Cross over the rode well (if impractical, think about a deck pipe and locker below), and run the sprit back, passing the baby stay fastening right through it. Then there should be a beam crossing at its aft end in the forepeak area, forming a T where the juncture of the T is the inner stay bolts.
    Bobstay needs a generous hardwood filler block carved to fit and mushed (epoxy/high strength filler) into the vee.
     
  4. Hobiesailor
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    Hobiesailor New Member

    To PAR & Alan

    Thanks for info--these are exactly the kind of things that I need to know about.

    WRT PAR's query: The foredeck is (IMHO) too short as is for both the genny and the bobstay (same as whisker stay?) for the smaller jib. I anticipated the sprit would allow more room. Alan's comment re passing through during tack is well put and I will have to ensure I locate the stay appropriately as as to not bind the genny during a tack, though that problem could be mitigated by partial furling (I've seen that practiced, but have yet to 'train my crew' in this technique).

    In addition, Alan's suggestions as to how to ensure adequate sprit anchoring and the possibility of re-working the rode well are also on point--again, thanks for sharing!

    PAR, you are correct re the ketch version, though I haven't seen one other than in pics. There is a possiblity that a deck-mounted mizzen mast with a smaller sail would alleviate lee helm. I would likely go with the fatter roach main first; however, as I'm due for new sails before the major build-out. Like I said, time is not an issue at this point and I'm working at getting 'design smarter' before I commit major $$.
     
  5. Hobiesailor
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    Hobiesailor New Member

    To Alan

    Re-read your post and the meaning of whisker stay became obvious (even to this slow student!)--short wires from tip of sprit to attachment point on bow hull below deckline (located to provide anchoring for bowsprit).

    Design intent is for exactly what you'd suggested, a short stout sprit anchored firmly at bow (post?) and carried back to rear of rode well--you are correct re beam placement there, though I will have to ensure that beam's attachment and stability.

    Good thought on the rode pipe--there is room in the forepeak to accomplish what you are suggesting--and the mods necessary to the v-berth will not cost much as I'm likely to want the additional dry storage more than narrow bunk space.
     
  6. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Okay, I'll take a guess in that you want double headsails on a sloop for some reason(s).

    On a typical Cutter, the mast is located in the middle of the boat, while on a sloop, particular one of this era, the mast is in the forward 1/3 of the boat. This limits fore triangle base, but large overlapping jibs were intended. From a performance point of view, a single headsail is preferred.

    I can see some advantages to having a multiple hoist option, especially with a furler, but not in the traditional fashion as seen on a cutter.

    For example you might want a big jenny on a furler, which would be used most of the time, but in stiffer wind strengths, it could be rolled and a smaller, maybe boomed jib hoisted for a nice snug rig in building conditions. I've seen this setup with two rollers, but usually the jenny is rolled and the jib is hanked on a stay just aft of the roller. This stay is "retracted", usually clipped to the mast or foredeck near the mast base, until needed. I've also seen this setup where the whole inner stay is hoisted, with the sail pre-hanked.

    This type of arrangement wouldn't require a sprit, though a modified bow roller/headstay fitting will be necessary. This is a fairly common cruising arrangement having much to merit it. Is this what you're after? If so any reasonable designer can pen up a sail plan and rigging details for the arrangement. If interested, drop me an email (click on my name).
     

  7. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    A cross beam can be as simple as a yellow pine 2 x 4 bedded and glassed into the inner deck skin. Then it would not interfere with anything in the forepeak area. Usually, the chain locker is possible without interfering with the berths. It wouldn't be good to shorten any berth below 6 ft, and better, 6 ft 2 in.
    There is also the design that allows a pipe that curves down to the head end of the vee berth where there's usually a storage area between bunks. This allows a full chain rode well aft of the deck pipe, which gets the weight of the chain out of the end of the boat. You can easily find pipe that is flexible enough, such as ABS water pipe to run from the deck pipe down to the locker. If the rode is mostly rope, there's no worry about weight of course. Just don't anchor near any coral. If you plan to sail, for example, around the Bahamas, consider the lower aft location chain locker.
     
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