Minimum Passagemaker/Cruiser

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by mydauphin, Sep 29, 2010.

?

What is minimum that you can handle?

Poll closed Oct 29, 2010.
  1. I can only live in a proper yacht

    2 vote(s)
    6.1%
  2. Need: Size between 40 and 50 feet

    8 vote(s)
    24.2%
  3. Need: Size between 30 and 40 feet

    15 vote(s)
    45.5%
  4. Need: Size smaller than 30 feet ok

    8 vote(s)
    24.2%
  5. Need: Power

    22 vote(s)
    66.7%
  6. Need: Sail

    19 vote(s)
    57.6%
  7. Need: Single Engine

    24 vote(s)
    72.7%
  8. Need: Twin Engine

    5 vote(s)
    15.2%
  9. Need: Head and holding tank

    26 vote(s)
    78.8%
  10. Need: Air conditioner and Generator

    7 vote(s)
    21.2%
  11. Need: Watermaker

    15 vote(s)
    45.5%
  12. I don't care if interior looks like my garage

    8 vote(s)
    24.2%
  13. Need: DC Power Only

    15 vote(s)
    45.5%
  14. Need: Carpeting

    4 vote(s)
    12.1%
  15. Need: Wood floors

    9 vote(s)
    27.3%
  16. Need: Satellite TV

    3 vote(s)
    9.1%
  17. Need: Internet

    13 vote(s)
    39.4%
  18. Need: Hot Water Shower

    18 vote(s)
    54.5%
  19. Need: Manual Bilge pumps

    17 vote(s)
    51.5%
  20. Need: Propane Stove

    16 vote(s)
    48.5%
  21. Need: Freezer

    12 vote(s)
    36.4%
  22. Need: A boat that won't shame me at the marina.

    12 vote(s)
    36.4%
  23. Need: Windlass

    18 vote(s)
    54.5%
  24. Need: Dingy

    26 vote(s)
    78.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    The fuel supply you describe there (a boatbuilder would´nt do that) is just mad.
    As mad are the 15% you dream about. Again: a boatbuilder would not say so.

    The "MINIMUM" boat, following your SOR, is pretty much the maximum one can get, at according cost, To skimp on internet equipment saves 1000$ thats it, and the AC units, as mentioned by fcfc above, are not the big factor also.

    So, you think almost the same way as most of the experienced sailors, but you call it minimalist and cheap? Stay with simple rocket science.....

    What was the title of your PM?

    Stop being a idiot!

    Whithout your contribution it IS!

    Regards
    Richard
     
  2. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    The first statement do not make sense. If you do the weight calculation it will not amount to that number.
    The weight saving depend of the relation between the total weight of the design and the system you put. What the guy said can't in any circumstance taken as a rule. It is very unprofessional to state that.

    The second statement (Way to go?) is just a marketing stunt from a desperate boat builder. should not have been mentioned. It is utterly stupid.
    The cult of a system ends up like any other cult, in Wacko :p

    Daniel
     
  3. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    David, the first step will be not to talk to boat builder, but knowing what YOU want, and for what purpose, within your own sea experience, and what budget, including the maintenance budget (10% yearly of the cost of the boat)
    After that the road is easy.
    Daniel
     
  4. u4ea32
    Joined: Nov 2005
    Posts: 416
    Likes: 14, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 192
    Location: Los Angeles

    u4ea32 Senior Member

    Its really a shame, but boy what a waste of time this is. Bye!
     
  5. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 2,304
    Likes: 187, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 2281
    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    Well I just voted in the poll and looked over the current results....some thoughts occur......

    Using length alone as a basic quantifier is pointless....... This 30' design by Hub Miller is far more livable than many 40 (or more) footers.......

    Hubmiller.jpg

    It seems that almost all voters agree that the dinghy and a head with holding tank are required.....apparently only 20% of voters have heard of a composting toilet? And 20% intend to tie in a marina every night, or just not walk the dog?

    Shower with hot water is popular too......that seems reasonable and the hot water delivery system can vary considerably.....a small metal tank on the cabin top painted black works quite well......

    No mention of speed or range?
     
  6. wardd
    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 897
    Likes: 37, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 442
    Location: usa

    wardd Senior Member

    where did you find that on the net?
     
  7. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 2,304
    Likes: 187, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 2281
    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    If you are referring to the drawing by Hub?........Long ago before the interwebs there were books.........and words and drawings were printed into these books.......that drawing is in a book I possess......now it is on the interwebs and here is where you can find it........:D
     
  8. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,640
    Likes: 124, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1802
    Location: Brisbane

    Landlubber Senior Member

  9. cthippo
    Joined: Sep 2010
    Posts: 753
    Likes: 37, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 465
    Location: Bellingham WA

    cthippo Senior Member


    There is one that looks like some of those coaster designs at La Conner. I always thought it was a homemade addition to a perfectly reasonable boat, but perhaps it was built that way :O

    RE: the cost of the guts, if you look at the price for comparably sized working boats vs pleasure craft, the difference is staggering. Granted, I'm looking at the used market, but still, it's notable. Makes a strong argument for buying a used steel hulled fishing boat and re-working the interior.
     
  10. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 4,519
    Likes: 109, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1009
    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "Using length alone as a basic quantifier is pointless."

    Agreed,

    LOA is quite useless , but LWL esp. for power boats does work better.

    "Makes a strong argument for buying a used steel hulled fishing boat and re-working the interior."

    Fish boats are designed to carry huge weights , and most boats need to be near their lines to operate properly.

    Tons of ballast , or a ferrocement interior?

    FF
     
  11. cthippo
    Joined: Sep 2010
    Posts: 753
    Likes: 37, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 465
    Location: Bellingham WA

    cthippo Senior Member

    Well, I have been looking at the latter in other contexts...

    I'm not sure what the answer to that is but I know there is one because they don't leave port full of fish. Maybe they carry a lot of ballast and replace it with fish as they catch them. There are also some boats designed for low volume, high value catches, such as lobster or salmon. In these the cargo weight is not a significant fraction of the overall vessel weight.

    Not saying it's an automatic conversion, only that it can and has been done and a significantly lower price and a new construction.
     
  12. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    If you don´t know whats the anwer, how can you come to such a statement, that boats are carrying ballast to be replaced by catch?

    Why do you state: T
    Have you personally been on them? Are they, what you would call a "minimum passagemaker" ???

    Having a opinion is right and welcome, statements should be backed by experience though.............

    Regards
    Richard
     
  13. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
    Posts: 2,164
    Likes: 52, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 575
    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    The purpose of this thread, if you all look was to discuss the stuff NEEDED in a passagemaker, not what is a passagemaker. Apparently there is a big divergence as to opinion on that subject.

    This is like discussing religion, people have their belief right or wrong and will die defending it. Many have little experience follow what they read in magazine that tell of little Nordhavn crossing the Atlantic, and yes people have circumnavigate the world in a canoe. Frankly I wouldn't want to cross the Atlantic in anything smaller than 500 feet

    From the responses, Dingys, Windlass, Holding tank being top positions, it seems you guys are island hopping or cruising the up and down the coast. Not that a proper boat shouldn't have these things, but one does not need any of these thing to cross the big pond.

    So a passagemaker for most is a big cruiser to travel 200 miles, not a extended blue water long range trawler to travel 1000+ miles... Interesting
     
  14. cthippo
    Joined: Sep 2010
    Posts: 753
    Likes: 37, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 465
    Location: Bellingham WA

    cthippo Senior Member

    I didn't say that's how it was done, only that it might be done that way. We know that boats go out without fish on board and they come back with lots of fish on board. I see two possibilities as to how this is possible.

    Either

    A: the added weight of the fish is not significant,

    or

    B: they start out with something else which weighs about the same as the fish they intend to catch and replace this weight with fish, resulting in the vessel having approximately the same weight when full as when empty.

    I'm open to hearing what option C is
     

  15. Wavewacker
    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 696
    Likes: 21, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 226
    Location: Springfield, Mo.

    Wavewacker Senior Member

    Has no one mentioned solar capacity?

    As mentioned above, a washing machine would be nice, a dryer even nicer.

    And have to have an iron, there are 12v models, don't know how you would ever enjoy a proper dinner without clean, pressed clothes...a nice hanging locker for my Tux? lol

    What's the best radar system for the money on this one? What's the best "bang" for the buck (yes, pun intended) Chart plotter? GPS? Communications gear? What's needed?
     
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