Mini 650 takes flight too

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Dolfiman, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

  2. Boy Griffioen
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    Boy Griffioen Junior Member

    Nice, i'm wondering if the scow form will still be succesfull for a foiling mini. The weight adds up i think.
     
  3. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    It depends of the foils role and dimension, reflecting the designer expectation for this additonnal device : which fractions of lift (and so of RM) at wich speeds.
     
  4. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  5. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    My sorry Doug, I have not yet seen all your threads already showing us these developments.

    You saw that Imoca stay conservative on full flight capability, no lift wing on rudders, ocean singlehanded races versus full flight still a huge decision to take for organisers, even with self-righting boats. But may be an option for future AC if monohulls ?
     
  6. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    No worries at all-just wanted you to know about the other thread. I think the SeAir has rudder T-foils and I think the new full foling Vendee and Volvo boats will have rudder T-foils too-required to fully fly. Thanks for your input,Dolfiman!
     
  7. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    I think the scow shape is important to provide beam forward and improve lateral separation between the foils. It will also help for the inevitable nose–dives from ventilation. One big question is the through–hull fittings, they take huge loads when the boat is at speed, it will be interesting to see how well they can maintain their seal. I guess much has been learned from sealing off canting keels (though they aren't that well sealed), but now there are 3 such appendages, all taking very large loads.

    It will also be a challenge to keep the boats foiling, it takes a lot more concentration that any other mode. You can see in the videos that the boat is being very actively steered to maintain foiling, and that is in maybe 15kn of breeze and relatively flat water. It's being steered like a planning skiff, i.e. you go wherever the wind sends you to keep the boat under the mast. It will be quite a feat to come up with an auto–pilot that can sustain safe foiling.
     
  8. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

  9. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    Mini transat starts Sunday at 16:00

    If you are not still aware of, I recommend you to follow the race through the virtual regatta, it is free ( if you don't take the options, but they are not necessary to have fun and be in the 10% lead, moreover they offer you a credit for this transat), fun and the best way to follow the real boats doing their races, to note their speed in the various conditions, to compare foilers and non foilers. I played this game like 500 000 others during the last Vendée Globe and it was super.
    Virtual Regatta Offshore https://www.virtualregatta.com/index_vroffshore.php
     
  10. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

  11. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    The videos are great, the "Dali" foils seem a better idea than the flat foils like those used by 747. It even seems to foil slightly to windward, though the VMG might be square or below. They must have a lot of faith in the autopilot!
     
  12. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    Mini transat start :
     
  13. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    First leg of the 2017 Mini Transat was won by Ian Lipinski in FRA 865 Griffon.fr (he looks very happy about it:)). Quentin Vlamynck in FRA 900 Arkema finished 14th of the prototypes, and also with 13 production boats ahead, including some Pogo 2s. Results are at Mini Transat La Boulangère 2017 http://minitransat.geovoile.com/2017/tracker/?lg=en.

    Are there any other foilers in the race? I watched the video of the start and couldn't see any (not even FRA 900). This leg was relatively light and the last 60% was downwind so should have favoured them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
  14. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    Arkema 3 FRA 900 is the only one foiler to my knowledge. SUI 888 (Simon Koster) was the first mini with foils but, due to lack of performance in upwind and light winds , and working with Michel Desjoyaux team (Mer Forte) to prepare the boat for the 2017 transat, Simon eventually dedided to change foils for daggerboards.

    As I did the Virtual Regatta in parallel, I can say that the conditions of the first leg were very very lights (the slowest leg of the mini transat story) and indeed not favorable for foiler : first upwind with tacks in about 6-8 Knots wind to get out of the Biscay Gulf, then 12-15 knots for just 36-48 h offshore Cap Finisterre, and then terribly light winds up to the arrival, 3 to 6 knots patches of wind here and there, always from rear.

    In these conditions, Arkema 3 was never able to be in the first 10 protos. Let' see what he could do in the second leg a priori more favorable.
     

  15. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    Thanks for an informative and balanced post.
     
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