Mason 36 stretched to 42?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by OldBlue, Jan 5, 2011.

  1. OldBlue
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    OldBlue Junior Member

    Apparently there were six built in steel in Ontario by Dehmer Brothers Boat Building about 20 years ago. There is one for sale in Vancouver but I can't find any mention of a Mason 36 on the internet. I am mainly trying to verify that this stretched design was a success. The beam and draft were also pushed out 6". The design modification was reportedly approved by the Mason "design people" and stamped. Dehmer Brothers built five more and the drawings have since disappeared.
    I'm a novice sailor and new to this forum. I'm looking for a rugged Pacific Northwest / Alaska vessel. A quick Yachtworld search of Mason 42 will pull it up.
    Thanks in advance.

    OldBlue
     
  2. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    "Verify it was a success"....in what way? You are probably the only one who can judge if she's a success for your intended use......

    A stretched design is not "pushed out"....There is a Mason 40 design that is a stretched Mason 36, but beam and draft are identical, 11'11" and 5'10" respectively. There is also a multi-chine Mason 41 designed for steel, her beam is 12'2" and draft is 6'3"......A careful designer like Al would never approve one of his designs being "pushed out", he would create a new design......
     
  3. OldBlue
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    OldBlue Junior Member

    Mason or not?

    You're right about the success part. I was hoping that a professional on this forum would be familiar with this design and perhaps even the modification. You never know until you ask.
    I'm viewing the boat tomorrow. The specifications I'm getting from the broker are not substantiated with drawings or a reference to a design that I can verify. I suspect that this boat's origins are a little different than what the broker is representing, although it may be an honest mistake. Read his explanation of the design and modifications below:

    Displacement documented is 20,000 loaded estimate. If you want to move forward when a lift is performed we can get a more accurate weight from lift.

    Design change to Stretch Mason 36 to 42

    The current owner is very knowledgable in the design and lofting of boats.

    He lofted the 36 plans to 42, because it was quite easy as the design is based on a frameless (no rib) design.

    He added 6 feet to lenghth
    He added 6" to beam
    He added 6" draft

    He forwarded this to the Mason design people for review. They reveiwed and signed and stamped his drawings. Subsequently the building yard in Ontario ( Dehmer Bros Boat Building) took the drawings and built 5 other boats after this one 20 years ago. I have tried unsuccessfully to find them but cannot and cannnot find the Dehmer Bros either.


    As a professional would you know a way to verify this design? ID number somewhere on the hull? I'm not interested in buying someone else's experiment, except maybe Al Mason's.

    Thanks
    OldBlue
     
  4. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    This particular assumption has screwed more potential buyers and new yacht owners then any other thing! A broker is always misleading you, is always pissing on your back and telling you it's just rain.

    Contact Al Mason's daughter, who I believe is handling his work now, though it may be in the hands of a museum by now. Contact her in any regard, as she'll have the scoop on a custom, full up revamp of the 36.

    Lastly, in spite of the current owner's "experience" never believe it, it's going to be nearly as bad as the information from a broker. Doing as you describe to a design, isn't something that is preformed on the lofting floor, it's done at the designers desk and anyone suggesting that is was, is pure and shear lunacy (not an exasperation). It's absolutely absurd to suggest that it was and anyone trying to tell you this, is so full of crap that it should completely discount any other statements from them.

    I know this seems harsh, but I've seen countless folks screwed over the years, most who are so enamored with the yacht of their dreams, they don't bother to pay enough attention to the yells, from someone like me and end up holding the bag, on exactly what I told them they might.

    In short and as Tad told you, you don't "just bump out" a design here and there and hope for the best, unless it's 12' jon boat looking to be a 14' jon boat. A 36' yacht to a 42' yacht will like increase it's displacement by as much as 50% (maybe more). This isn't even attempted on the loft floor, the whole of the design has to be recalculated, everything from planking thickness to the size of rigging clevis pins are re-speced.
     
  5. OldBlue
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    OldBlue Junior Member

    The plot thickens......

    I am a tradesman myself, although in the mechanical industry. I lack the design background to apply what must seem like common sense to you. But I'm learning. I will look at this vessel and ask for verifiable proof that it is a Mason design with approved modifications, and then attempt to verify as you suggest. Although I think I know the answer already.
    This boat was apparently built for the purpose of world cruising and adventure expeditions in the high latitudes. For some reason it never got past Vancouver Island in 20+ years. Thanks for taking the time to educate me. Very much appreciated.

    OldBlue
     
  6. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    blue.....

    It is the most common thing in the world to buy plans for one boat and them "improve" them and build something else......happens every day on this and other forums.......

    The builders of these "improved' versions have thrown away the design pedigree they paid good money for.......Unless the owner of this boat has documented proof that Al approved all his design changes........the boat is an orphan from an unknown designer and must be priced appropriately.......

    I'm not saying anything against the construction or details of this boat, I don't know anything about it....pictures tell one very little.....it may be a fine vessel......but I would question the Mason design claim......

    The Al Mason name is well known, and has been misrepresented by numerous builders....brokers buy into this because it increases commissions......Actually Al's daughter had a website up for a number of years (it's gone now) concerning the ripped off Mason name......especially buy a certain Taiwanese builder......
     
  7. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    Exactly. Then the boats are misrepresented as "designed by (fill in famous name).

    Classic example is the "Peterson" Formosa 46. Not a Peterson design, but always advertised as such.
     
  8. OldBlue
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    OldBlue Junior Member

    Design Verification

    I had a good look at the boat, took pictures, asked questions, and spoke with the owner. The subject of the boat's design was never resolved. I asked for verification that the design was done by Al Mason, his designate, or at least approved by a naval archtitect / yacht designer. No deal without it. I haven't heard back.
    The search will continue....... Anyone know of a good westcoast family cruiser with offshore potential? Less than $100k. I'm not too concerned about having the bells and whistles such as the electronics, tender, etc. included. I think I would rather buy those items new or near new. A strong, well designed boat is the foundation I'm looking for.

    Slightly wiser,

    OldBlue
     
  9. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    Blixtar is for sale here in Silva Bay....She's a 44' William Tripp (Sr.) design custom built by Bristol Yacht in 1969....back when ocean racers were massively built. Sailed around from the east coast on her own bottom, circumnavigated Vancouver Island last summer, windvane, solar panels, diesel heat, asking $80k......

    Blixtararrang.jpg
     
  10. OldBlue
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    OldBlue Junior Member

    Bristol?

    Any online photos? Link?

    Thanks
     
  11. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    blue,

    I'll take some when I go out in a bit, also there is a Maple Leaf 42 for sale here as well......much less equipment and far lower price I believe.....
     

  12. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

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