Manie's TEN

Pericles interesting article, just goes to show the Chinese crooks are alive and well
Quote - Hanergy "has been racking up enviable revenues largely through sales between its listed subsidiary, HTF, and itself." No wonder the company has been desperate to distract attention from its cooked books

Anyway thank goodness my panels are in stock

Here are the pics of the mockups as I was playing along to see how everything is going to fit and to calculate weight distribution carefully.
So the next project after the keel is the "roof" then the whole picture becomes a lot more clearer

 

Hi Fanie,

Nothing beats Tractor Pulling, no special effects needed . .

This is the methanol fueled European Maid in 2009 in Wierden in Holland . .

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Driver is OK due to proper clothing, he burned his eyebrows though, something wrong with the visor I think . . :idea:

It was a short fire, the movies would have stretched it . .

BTW, the Belgian Baby Duck has four 1,700 Hp gas turbines, stripped from some Russian helicopters . . - (4 x Klimov Isotov TV2-117)

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P.S. - European Maid fire: ‘‘ Door een nog onbekende oorzaak ’’ = ‘‘ By an unknown cause ’’ - The battery caused it I think . .

 

The battery says ‘‘Do Not Charge in Sealed Container’’ so don't forget to make provisions to vent the battery box I think.

 

The battery box is not sealed off to the top. There are lots of gaps and spaces where the pipe and cables for the 12v bilge pump comes out and then also the cables from the battery to the controller. It will be safe because the lighter than air gasses could raise and "evaporate"

Fortunately my draw off the batteries is very low and the amount of charge going in is also relatively low. Keep in mind having 3x batteries is to have good "storage" when bad weather strikes, then the windgenerator will be stopped and of course the solar panels become virtually useless. Having the 3 batteries at least means I can also run the Torqeedo motor to move out of harms way for a couple of hours. That's also why the Lead Crystal is important because they can be run flat without damaging the batteries.

 

In Italy I've never seen cars on fire, if not in some accident during Formula One races, or those burned by the anarchists during the policies events.
Instead I have seen for a long time on TV the Gulf of Mexico in flames, and now every night the oil spill in California.
I also read that in south Africa corruption is rampant, and that for the Football World Cup in 2010 were paid bribes.
Manie, I would add a little air extractor in the bottom, so time to time to cleanse the bilge from any gas.
However I do not understand how much efficiency can have solar panels in those latitudes.

 

Solar panels in the deep south looses a lot of efficiency however in the summer months you do have daylight for up to 18 hours. So yes the solar panels are not very efficient but it is still a very good backup to have, I would rather have inefficient panels than nothing at all.

Going south you rely heavily on your wind generator so the solar panels are just a good backup.

 

Manie, you speak of a low draw off, but also of a chance of running the batteries flat by using the Torqeedo motor, after which the batteries will be recharged by the wind generator and the solar panels, or by shore power when berthed. I think letting the gases "evaporate" through some gaps in the keel battery box isn't up to any safety standards. Second thing is that after the "evaporation" through some gaps the gases are in the cabin, which I know will be well vented, but the gases shouldn't pass through the cabin I think. Maybe you have valve-regulated batteries, the so-called "sealed type", they need 25% of the standard ventilation requirements.

Some safety guidelines from: Transport Canada --> Marine Transportation --> Marine Safety --> Marine Safety Publications --> Ships Electrical Standards (2008) - TP 127 E --> Accumulators / Storage Batteries -- the quote is from last link --

 

Angélique you make some very valid points - but Lead Crystal batteries are very different to what is usually used, which is mostly deep cycle lead acid. Lead Crystal are completely sealed and can even be mounted on its side.

And I quote - "During the first few discharge/charge cycles, the electrolyte solidifies and forms a non-toxic white crystalline substance. This results in a safe, fluid-less, high performance and environmentally friendly battery."

http://www.rectifier.co.za/Batteries/discover/pdf/Lead Crystal Batteries.pdf

I must stress that I am also very concerned about out-gassing but to date I have found no evidence that this could be a problem with Lead Crystal. I do stand to be corrected if anybody can post links to reliable documentation and not hearsay from the yacht club pub

I have kept out-gassing in mind and there is provision for a vent pipe but I will only install that if I can actually find/prove that it is a problem.

Your assumption that the Torqeedo motor could drain the batteries completely is a 100% correct, that is the beauty of having an electrical drive system because you could never carry that amount of fuel with you, you make your own

Webb Chiles had a wonderful time in Opua he loves his Torqeedo
http://www.inthepresentsea.com/the_...pua__Torqeedoed;_gennakered;_words;_gone.html
Opua NZ is probably one of the most beautiful places on Earth

Anyway Angelique your input is always highly appreciated and valued because I know that you always do excellent research, thanks

 

very interesting

lead crystal batteries does not even exist on Wikipedia

 

Hi Manie,

I added this sentence to my above post while you was writing yours, didn't know you was so quick to read and respond . .

Some quotes from above link, I didn't check them though...

Basic principle

Comparison with flooded lead–acid cells

 

VRLA -- AGM type battery -- Is this the same type as Lead Crystal . . ? ? ?​

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Doesn't look they're sweeties under all circumstances . . ​

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Edit: it looks like Lead Crystal is a VRLA gel type battery, and not the AGM type, see my next post.​

 

absolutely but do keep in mind that VRLA is still lead acid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA_battery

 

That sounds like Lead Crystal is a valve-regulated lead-acid gel type battery.

Yes, so are the Lead Crystal batteries.

VRLA battery

LEAD CRYSTAL -- Valve-regulated lead-crystal batteries -- User Manual

The electrolyte in the Lead Crystal batteries is a diluted sulfuric acid solution (like in all lead acid batteries) which in Lead Crystal and other gel batteries is immobilized by turning the liquid into a paste-like gel by the addition of silica and maybe some other gelling agents, but Lead Crystal mentions only SIO2 which is silica.

According to the data supplied by Lead Crystal both the acid electrolyte and the gelling agent are the same as in all other valve-regulated lead-acid gel type batteries.

 

They are very expensive (3x the price of deep cycle)

BUT Very interesting and I quote :-

"No dangerous acid mist or harmful gas emissions. Non-corrosive. Significantly less pollution. ISO 14001 certified.

"No toxic fluid. No hazardous emissions. No risk of explosion.

"Classified as non-hazardous for transportation. The only battery allowed for air-freight as normal goods.

"Can be 100% discharged and then restored to full-rated capacity daily, with no risk to battery life

"The Lead Crystal Battery out performs any other battery technology at extreme temperatures due to no fluid that can freeze and expand causing bending of plates. The battery functions from -40 to +60 C°.

"Service life of 18-20 years at 25°C. Up to 3,100 charge/discharge cycles.

And that is why I have them, very pleased with my stock

 

http://www.exsolar.co.za/products/batteries/lead-crystal-batteries/bb6-cnfj-100-100amh-battery/

http://www.exsolar.co.za/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/c11370bcaacee2588aa3f923cb6532de.pdf