Magnum 53 Hybrid

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by John Kane, Jun 8, 2013.

  1. John Kane
    Joined: Jun 2013
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    Location: Bahamas

    John Kane Junior Member

    A lot of people around these forums use very broad assumptions based on the whole market but you are not doing your research.Canadian solar who I have used(yes a Chinese company before anybody starts) offer a 20 year parts and performance warranty including their micro-inverter if installed now this will probably not be valid on a boat which is why sweeping statements are no use. However the quality is their.
     
  2. Jeremy Harris
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    Jeremy Harris Senior Member

    I've heard of a few early failures of PV installations, but all seem to have been wiring related, rather than panel related. Here in the UK we had a bizarre situation last year where the government announced a 50% cut in the subsidy for people fitting PV to their homes. As a consequence, there was a crazy rush of people trying to beat the deadline and we had PV installers literally working every hour of daylight to rush to get installations completed. One consequence that seems to have arisen is that we're now getting a crop of wiring fires and burnt out connectors on roofs, and I'm near-certain that that's mainly down to poor installation workmanship during the boom. From what I can see, even the fairly cheap panels are still performing well, as provided they stay well sealed there's no real reason for them ever to fail (although their output will drop slightly as they get older).
     
  3. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    Gentlemen,

    You got it covered.
     
  4. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    The problem in PV world has a name: China. On the other hand, and paradoxically, the blessing of the PV world bears the same name.
    Fact is, their mass-production low-cost panels have allowed the drop in price and a wide diffusion of PV systems worldwide. However, at the same time the fierce competition from Chinese manufacturers has forced other brands around the globe to look more at savings and less at quality, in order to keep up and not go into bankrupcy.

    I've checked out some info in internet, FWIIW, and it looks like today there indeed is a significant percentage of PV panels rolling out of factory with latent defects. They are mostly related to bad solder bonds between some PV cells, which may lead to a partial failure of a PV module. There appears to be a number of studies confirming this. Found also an interesting article about this issue: http://www.renewableenergyworld.com...lar-struggle-a-rise-of-poorly-made-pv-modules
    A japanese study of the problem: http://www.iea-pvps.org/index.php?id=15&eID=dam_frontend_push&docID=1275 taken from the site http://www.iea-pvps.org/

    Of course, it also means 95% of panels are ok. Depends on how one wants to look at the problem. ;)
     
  5. Timothy
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: canada

    Timothy Senior Member

    These are the figures Torqeedo has posted for the batteries for its newest electric out board

    Battery Cost

    Number of batteries 2 3 4
    Capacity in kWh 26 39 52
    Total battery bank cost USD 32,998 49,497 65,996
    Total cost per year in USD* 3,666 5,500 7,333
    Electricity Cost

    Cost per kWh in USD 0.112 0.112 0.112
    Single charge (80%) in USD ** 2.41 3.62 4.83
    150 charges per year (80%) in USD ** 362 543 724
    200 charges per year (80%) in USD ** 483 724 965


    Total cost per year of 150 days
    usage in USD ** 4,028 6,043 8,057
    Total cost per year of 200 days
    usage in USD ** 4,149 6,224 8,298
    * Based on 9 years
     
  6. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    If I read the first two rows correctly then cost per kWh is, respectively:
    32998/26 = 1269.15 USD
    49497/39 = 1269.15 USD
    65996/52 = 1269.15 USD

    Not 0.112 USD ...
     
  7. kerosene
    Joined: Jul 2006
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    kerosene Senior Member

    I don't think he meant cost of kwh of storage capacity but cost of 1 kwh of electricity from the utility company.

    Isn't that in the range for e pricing ?
     
  8. Timothy
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Timothy Senior Member

    I believe the cost of .112 per kwh is the price of electricity in Florida and they are using this as the basis for the cost of recharging the batteries using the grid. I will have to go back and read it again.
     
  9. Jeremy Harris
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    Jeremy Harris Senior Member

    Typical cost per kWh for lithium batteries of reasonably good quality is around $500 to $600 for large capacity packs, so those Torqeedo prices seem about right. This is the raw cell price, to which the cost of the battery management system, battery housing, and, for installed boat use, fire suppression system, needs to be added.
     
  10. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Oh... Yes, that seem to be right. :)
     
  11. John Kane
    Joined: Jun 2013
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    Location: Bahamas

    John Kane Junior Member

    I wanted to know the figure based on a lets say 15kw generator on a boat and that should include maintenance costs, I estimated at .50c
     
  12. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    That was the first thing I told him 6 days ago... and perhaps now not to believe advertising claims.

    What you need to do John,is find out exactly how many HP it takes to run your boat at 5 knots and then go from there.
     
  13. philSweet
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    Location: Beaufort, SC and H'ville, NC

    philSweet Senior Member

  14. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: SF bay

    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    I'd like to see "hybrid" in keel-boat.

    Use the heavy batts as the ballast. Use elec motor to get in and out of marina to avoid firing up engine.

    Use electric instead of gas or alcohol for appliances.

    Trickle charge with solar or even prop if running hard downwind.


    Not really seeing it on large(too big to tow to restricted lakes) power boat but quiet trolling would be nice.
     

  15. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    I am against this one. Using electric energy for cooking appliances is a waste of energy and batteries. Much better and much more ecological (if that's the driving spirit of the project) is to use gas or alcohol for this application.
     
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