Looking for Advice

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Mattyb, Nov 9, 2020.

  1. Mattyb
    Joined: Sep 2017
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    Location: Great Lakes

    Mattyb Junior Member

    A little background, This winter I'm going to be building a small boat for the first time. The building technique is stitch and glue with plywood. the goal is to get some boat building experience and try to scare myself out of a much larger project. i plan on if I enjoy the process and want to continue learning, building a strip plank canoe next. Again the goal is to get experience and hopefully scare myself out of the idea of building a bigger boat.

    Two primary reasons why I want to build.
    • I want the challenge
    • the design I am drawn to is no longer made and doesn't come in the materials I'm looking for.

    The primary issue I'm running into now and if I will even be able to obtain plans for the design I'm looking for. I have reached out to a few marine architects and the feedback I have been getting is, "we design boats for yards, not home builders" or "contact the designer this saves you a lot of time and money"

    The issue here is the already existing design of Anker one and obviously, he's not alive anymore. Also because the boat "Bojar" is a classic wooden boat, even if I was to obtain original plans they're not in my desired building materials of strip-planked cedar and glass.

    Questions?
    is my attempt to scare myself out of the idea a sound way of doing it and can a more experienced boatbuilder take a crack at it? this would not be my first project of this scale but would be my first boat of this scale.

    I have been considering teaching myself how to use design software and designing it myself. My major concern is with this I don't know how in-depth this software is like deck joints and tabbing etc. Or, does anyone have recommendations on designers who still do work for home builders?
     
  2. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Matty, I can see why you fell in love with Bojar - she is gorgeous.
    Johan Anker 52 ft Flush Deck Cutter 1937 http://www.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/yacht/148/johan-anker-52-ft-flush-deck-cutter-1937

    Sandeman mention that she has been sold - but even if she was still for sale, I am sure that her asking price would still be only a fraction of what it would cost for you to build a modern version of her today.
    Do you have a (couple of) million dollars to fling at this project? If not, then there is no point in even thinking about building a boat like this, even if you build her yourself.
    You would be looking at maybe 10 years of work, and the odds are that you would become disillusioned early on - even in strip planking, she would be a complex yacht to build.
    I am sure that there are designers out there who would happily re-create her lines for you - but again this would no doubt involve a hefty fee, as there would be a lot of work involved (and the fee would still be a small fraction of the cost to build her).
     
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  3. clmanges
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: Ohio

    clmanges Senior Member

    Maybe you could start with one of these:

    Chesapeake Light Craft | Boat Plans, Boat Kits, Boatbuilding Supplies, Boat Kit, Kayak Kit, Canoe Kit, Sailboat Kit https://www.clcboats.com/

    Beyond your specification of S&G build, we don't know what kind of small boat you want to start with, but since you like older, graceful designs, you should be able to find something among CLC's offerings.

    I'd suggest looking through the descriptions in detail; they mark a lot of these by level of difficulty or experience needed.

    I'd also suggest you start with a kit. It's not cheating, and a first-time builder can finish a successful project while gaining skill and experience. If it was me, I'd pick something that's easier than I thought I could do, because the first time at anything can bring a lot of surprises.
     
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  4. Mattyb
    Joined: Sep 2017
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    Location: Great Lakes

    Mattyb Junior Member

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  5. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    For reference, here is a link to Tim Weston's Noosa.
    https://timwestonboats.com/plans/plans-noosa/
    They call her a 'runabout' (maximum power 5 hp, recommended power 3.3 hp) - she would be a nice tender for a yacht (albeit a bit large at 11'4" long).

    Re comparing Bojar with a (similar size?) Bruce Roberts - this would be like comparing the proverbial chalk and cheese.
    Even if Bojar was simplified a lot re her design and construction details to make her easier to construct for a first time builder, the Roberts design would probably still be cheaper / easier to build, all else being equal.
     
  6. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    I think you need to decide whether building a boat or designing a boat is your goal. Designing a proper boat will take longer than building one from good plans.
     
  7. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    The main goal here appears to be for the OP to get tired of building a small boat, and be thereby be cured of wanting to build a very large boat, There may be more wisdom in that, than first appears !
     
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  8. Mattyb
    Joined: Sep 2017
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    Location: Great Lakes

    Mattyb Junior Member

    In my research and common sense would dictate, starting small is a logical way of testing the waters. I personally don't want to design anything and feel that's a bad choice. That being said, building boats of this scale by home builders is not an impossible task and has been done in the past. what is unclear aside from all the negativity is what would make the referenced boat more expensive to build? What design characteristic of Bojar aside from its size would make it more expensive than any other sailboat made in a similar fashion at a similar size?
     
  9. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    What is your budget ?
     
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  10. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    I get the impression that you love the look of Bojar above the waterline - she is very 'classic' for sure.
    But if you really want to build a classic yacht around 50' in strip plank, there are existing designs that are just as attractive, and which would probably be easier to build.
    Have a look at the Spirit 52 for instance -
    Spirit 52 | Contemporary Wooden Sailboats | Spirit Yachts https://spirityachts.com/sailing-yachts/the-classic/spirit-52/

    You could have a chat with Sean McMillan, and see if you could buy a set of plans from him.
    Or ask him to re-design Bojar for you.
    if you are going down this route, would a fin keel and spade rudder Bojar be acceptable?
    And finally, as Mr E notes above, you will need very deep pockets to build a yacht like this.
    What is your budget?
     
  11. Rumars
    Joined: Mar 2013
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    Location: Germany

    Rumars Senior Member

    For the original plans you can ask the Norwegian Maritime Museum, Library and archives - Norsk Maritimt Museum https://marmuseum.no/en/library-and-archives they have an extensive collection. You must identify the boat by her original name, Ilmen V, Anker&Jensen Yard No. 417. If they have the drawings they can copy and mail them to you for a fee.
    The boat is carvel composite and can be buildt strip plank by maintaining all scantlings and simply stripping the hull on laminated frames and backbone. Wood species can stay the same for the planking (Douglas fir) and the framing can be something the same strenght as oak but more suitable for glueing with epoxy.
    If you want to convert the boat to a cedar cored boat with bulkheads only and glued in structural furniture you need to hire a NA. Not everybody will do it, but there are some.
     
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  12. jehardiman
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    Both the Noosa and a strip canoe are good early boats....mainly be cause they are garage sized boats of two easy construction methods. One of the hard points to get your head around is that you aren't going to mess up that $1200.00 piece of wood you need to chisel into. Just getting the wood working experience is what a new builder needs. As far as the Bruce Roberts designs?...<shrug> they are big and heavy, but not really my style.
     
  13. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    So what allotment of $ and time are you thinking of ?
     
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  14. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Seems like you take good advice that doesn't support your idea as negativity. Home builders have built many boats. Most of them are overbudget and of mediocre or poor quality. When they also designed them, without having experience, the results are worse. There also is a huge difference between designing a small boat, which has a very simple interior and the crew's weight is the largest part of the displacement, to a larger boat where volumes and weights are a major part of the calculations.
     

  15. missinginaction
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    missinginaction Senior Member

    It's not negativity you see here. It's practicality. It's wisdom based on experience. A 52 foot boat is a massive undertaking. Since you haven't even built a small boat yet, you are wise to start there. Once you're done with the small boat, come back here and let everyone know how you feel about building a 52 footer. Don't buy a kit. For your small boat buy plans, do the lofting and cut all the parts yourself, since that's what you'd be doing with the 52 footer, right?

    I wrote the post below a while back. This was just for a restoration of a boat less than 1/2 the length (which is going to be just a small fraction of the actual size) of what you are contemplating. Remember, if you read that thread that I had a solid hull to work with.

    Want to know how much a restoration might cost you? Read on..... https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/want-to-know-how-much-a-restoration-might-cost-you-read-on.62104/
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2020
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