Look at What Happens to Peaceful Protesters in the States

Exactly what I meant.

As said above.

That's the heart of the problem. The principles and laws governing the world economy.

See, we can call this movement dumb and these people childish idealists, communists, anarchists, socialists, we can call them whatever you want. But the fact is - these persons don't identify themselves anymore with the economical and political society governed by current rules (or lack of rules), and are expressing their disapproval through sit-ins and more or less peaceful protests. They believed that they have a right to protest and express their disapproval, but it turns out that they actually don't.

They are simple persons who feel the social and economical injustice of the current system and want to see it changed for better. They are not qualified nor entitled to re-write the economical legislation - politicians and economists are. Their governments have a duty to listen to these people and to act in such a way to improve their lives and social conditions.

Pepper-spraying protesters is a wrong answer to these problems. Starting to work actively on a new economical framework is a correct action.

The rules can be changed, if you have ever been engaged in any sport you will surely be well-aware of this fact. There is nothing wrong in changing the rules of the game from time to time if the players, the spectators and the sport in general will benefit from more balanced and thrilling matches thanks to the new rules. It happens all the time in every sport.

 

Dave: since you are against the first amendment, I would have to argue that you are anti-American. I have no political agenda. Democrats and Republicans are all sheep, especially the extremist ones. You, sir have the agenda.

Daquiri's most recent post is another example of why I've always found myself to identity more closely with people from Europe than from the USA. Notice his careful, independent thinking process that seeks truth. He doesn't enter the discussion with some preconceived notion then try to warp reality to fit his opinion. He looks at fact and reality, then arrives at a logical conclusion. The problem with many of my fellow Americans is they don't think. They just emote.

Also, see that his conclusion seeks a productive solution to the problem through understanding and reason.

"just spray those commies, they deserve it." does not further any helpful solution or improvement. This is where Americans, as a people have failed badly. There is no common goal of further improvement to the society (or roads, or bridges, or education, or health care, or business climate, etc). Before you jump in, please note I also favor smaller government. Many Americans have been indoctrinated into a pair of political ideologies and have lost the ability to think. That is crippling the country.

Great post, Daquiri. I agree 100%.

 

The Bill of Rights does not apply exclusively to protest movements.
Your right to swing your fist stops at my nose. Your right to interrupt the rights of non-protesting students to have access to the classes they paid for, or an employee to arrive in peace to his job is non-existent. Disturbing the peace, no matter how "peacefully" done is unlawful.
People don't want their lives disrupted by your juvenile antics.

 

You mean - you don't want.

I, for example, do recognize that those folks are doing something for me too, because I do think that this world has taken a wrong path and I do think that some action needs to be undertaken in order to change the state of things.
Yes, they are doing it in an uninformed and ill-organized way, childish if you want, but at least they are doing something. Raising their voices. In some countries it has led to turmoils and political changes (for better or for worse, we'll wait and see), in some other the system is much more robust and harder to change.

But many things will change in the years to come, you can bet on that. Once the people see that there's a movement going on, they will start asking themselves questions. Why is this happening? What do these folks want? Is it something that regards me too? What can I do, how do I contribute? That's how it goes, slowly and step by step. You personally can choose not to be part of it because it doesn't fit your view on the world, but you can't deny others a right to take the opposite decision.

Cheers

 

"A valid systemic problem"

"the heart of the problem- the principles and laws governing the world economy"

"Pepper-spraying protesters is a wrong answer to these problems. Starting to work actively on a new economical framework is a correct action."


Really?
Its broken and we would fix it if they would only let us speak...

The only systemic problem I see is the continued discomfort bred of a economic downturn.


"What they are is pissed off at is that there is no more opportunity in the USA, unless you're born into money, or willing to do illegal things or become a hooker."

This is the long term distribution of wealth in the US:



If this distribution is causing the "systemic problem" it has been here for a long time.

The current prospects for 'opportunity' has nothing to do with the "1%" problem.
Find another explanation.

 

Ballots, not bullets.

These people voted and things did not go the way they wanted, so they throw a tantrum. Hard to feel empathetic.

 

Socialism just doesn't work no matter who runs it.

Eventually the money runs out and the lazy have to go back to work or starve. Software doesn't carry lumber or lay foundations or put roofs on houses. Software doesn't grease bearings or change oil. Software doesn't pick lettuce. Stop blaming technology for people not wanting to work.

 

What? I'm not talking about myself here. I'm talking about the rights of peaceable assembly. I'm not part of the movement. Read back. I said I didn't agree with it.

I am pro- us constitution. 1st amendment.

Thanks for the offer, but i highly doubt you are so powerful as to dictate the HR moves of your client. That's just idle talk. They would probably dump you as a vendor if you started pushing the issue of getting me a position at the lab.

I changed careers many years ago, now and I'm happy in my life. Thanks for thinking of me, though.

 

When I get off my phone and can type a proper response, ill address this. You are missing the point. It's about the right of assembly. If we want to delve into the systemic problem, its not about 1%, its about who controls the government economic policy and ghe systemic problem there. There is more subtlety to it.

A democracy (or republic) can only work if it does the bidding of the majority of its population. If a minority is calling the shots, disenfranchising the majority, the government is doomed to fail. We see this happening all over the world right now. It's happening here, too. People were lulled into complacency by good economic times. Now they are noticing these systemic problems and starting to take action.
Lastly, hookers, etc, was just colorful speech. To bring a point home, like the George Washington post. Obviously not to be taken literally. More nuance, I know.

 

Fine cat- that whole post of mine was unnecessarily personal/specific/mouthy.

Thanks for not bristling-I deleted it on my side..


"When I get off my phone and can type a proper response, ill address this. You are missing the point. It's about the right of assembly. If we want to delve into the systemic problem, its not about 1%, its about who controls the government economic policy and ghe systemic problem there. There is more subtlety to it."

Thanks- that would be an interesting avenue for this thread as:

1) I don't find the 'right of assembly' being violated in these cases
2) The voice of the movement is present in political social discourse and can not be claimed to be censured as a reason for the lack of action.
3) I don't really understand the subtlety of the movement.

I am a economic cycle kind of guy- I am hesitant to lay out an argument for 'systemic fault'
I could be wrong.

 

I don't have the time or desire to answer your whole post, particularly when we've already covered that ground once. But I'll answer this paragraph as a typical part of it.

Why would you say a woman with her face orange from pepper spray, and dripping whatever milky liquid she'd been drenched with in an effort to counteract it, looks like a homeless person who had just barfed?

That isn't even a rational interpretation of the scene, much less a likely one. And as omnipresent as the photo has been in the news and on the internet, I doubt Cat saw any need to supply references. The same goes for the still from the video.

I believe you should do at least a modicum of checking, before you jump the gun and start casting doubt on the honesty of a fellow member's post. Which is what any reasonable reader knew you were doing, no matter what you're claiming now.

Yeah, yeah, I know. You meant no such thing, you were just digging for the truth, you have nothing but love in your heart, I'm prejudiced against you and twisting your words, etc....

 

Speaking of Photoshopped pepper-spray cops, the one in that video is taking a stroll through art history. People online are inserting him into famous paintings, especially those that have people sitting or lying on the ground, like Edouard Manet’s “Le Dejeuner sur l’Herbe.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...h-art-history/2011/11/21/gIQA4XBmhN_blog.html

 

Thanks Bntii. We actually usually agree on everything in those other threads - you know - America's Default and other ones like that.

I'm back on a computer now and in from the boat building, so I figure I'll make a proper response. I was not very clear posting from my phone, so let's try it again... inline in red, just to get people riled up. People get more angry when they are subjected to red, right?

 

SWISH! Everybody knows Dave was mocking that 84 year old woman. He's just backpedaling for a very insensitive comment.

 

Troy- very funny.
Thanks for posting the pic.

Cat- back at you later tonight