Look at What Happens to Peaceful Protesters in the States

Look, I'm not arguing that the Occupy Wall Street movement is good. It's pretty dumb, if you ask me. The target (Wall Street) isn't the enemy of the people. The movement is not well guided and they obviously don't understand macroeconomic principles.

What they are is pissed off at is that there is no more opportunity in the USA, unless you're born into money, or willing to do illegal things or become a hooker. All this, while at the same time, there is a lot of wealth in the hands of a very few, with those few controlling the government. This is a valid systemic problem, IMO.

That all aside, and remembering that I think the movement doesn't make any sense...

I'm arguing *for* our rights as citizens. Our constitutional rights. Your rights.

This is the first amendment of the US Constitution:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Are you seriously against the US Constitution? Should we alter the first amendment so that people are no longer allowed to gather and air their grievances about the government? What, are you looking to turn this place into some kind of dictatorship?


Those cops trampled on the protesters' first amendment rights. Like the Occupy Wall Street movement or not (I don't), these guys broke the law at a federal level. They should be prosecuted.


It doesn't matter if you agree with what Occupy Wall Street says or not. If you don't agree with the US Constitution, maybe it's time to look at moving to another country, where freedom of assembly is prohibited. Maybe that form of government would suit you better than ours?

 

Exactly. It is strange how many extremists in this country abandon the very principles the country was founded upon if it doesn't suit their political agenda.

Those founding principles, plus the American Dream are what used to make this country a place you could be proud to be a citizen of.

 

Now you're just being silly. George Washington never pitched a tent and blocked traffic as a political protest in his life...

You have to realize that the American Revolution was a break-away movement, spearheaded by the colonists' existing political, military, financial and intellectual leaders, against what had become basically a foreign occupation dictated by a semi-mad king on the other side of the ocean.

The colonists in America were revolting against long-distance despotism by the British, not rising up against their own homegrown institutions and leaders.

edit: The depth of the split between the colonies and the mother country was shown by the willingness of the British to use foreign troops against them: a quarter of the British forces (the Hessians) were hired from various German principalities. In some cases those German troops had been told they were enlisting to protect the colonists from Indians, and didn't learn better until they arrived.

 

Cat, do you realize the the school administration made a policy decision about the shanty camp on the campus?

They decided that the student could no longer camp out in a corner of the grounds and asked them to disband.

The police had to be called in when they refused.
The students responded by blocking the police access.

They were not restricted in their ability to assemble- just their ability to block the police.

Have you watched to vids carefully?

Did you see how the police responded to a crowd of 200 cornering them and demanding action?
Did you see how guarded the final retreat was?

This is not a good situation or a good outcome but responsibility lies on both parties.


I would simply hate to be facing that or any other crowd when charged with law enforcement.

Those kids were acting as a mob acts.

 

Whoops. I concede this point to Troy as well. He's correct.

I was taking Daquiri's post as a more general, folklore type post with George Washington being a metaphor for the uprising, rather than as a real person.

I definitely agree with Troy's post here.

 

which might just be why we are five for five on injunctions filed when we've been removed from our chosen public place. And we'll win the Denver injunction as well. Each was filed in federal court and each decision went against the state. Exactly because the public does have a right to peaceful assembly, which is why the cops are bringing in the violence so they can argue it wasn't peaceful assembly.

cheers
B

 

cheers
B

 

As usual, Troy, you are reading your prejudices against me into what I said. All I did was express doubts about Catbuilder's account of the situation and point out that it looked photoshopped to me. I still think it looks photoshopped, but if someone could point me to the actual video, I would believe it since video is a lot harder to modify.

 

Orders We Will Not Obey

“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves; whether they are to have any property they can call their own; whether their Houses, and Farms, are to be pillaged and destroyed, and they consigned to a State of Wretchedness from which no human efforts will probably deliver them. The fate of unborn Millions will now depend, under God, on the Courage and Conduct of this army” -- Gen. George Washington, to his troops before the battle of Long Island

 

And when the British shot back, he didn't go whining to the press about what big meanies those British soldiers are. When George Washington decided to use violence, he owned it. He went to war and expected war in return. These Occupy ninnies engage in violence and go out of their way trying to provoke violence, and when they get even minimal violent protest from police who are just trying to maintain order in the face of an anarchistic mob, they go screaming to a sympathetic press. "Look, look he's oppressing me! Did you see him oppress me?"

This violence is 100% deliberately provoked and escalated by the Occupy movement. That doesn't mean that the police are blameless and can't be criticized for over-reacting, but I give the benefit of the doubt to the police when they are trying to do their jobs and maintain order while the mob is doing their best to disrupt order.

 

ya but the protesters didn't burn anything, or shoot at anyone. They marched down the street just like every other peaceful protest did.

 

--Now you're just being silly. George Washington never pitched a tent and blocked traffic as a political protest in his life...

I don't think you can either justify or condemn political demonstrations by comparing them to war.

--You have to realize that the American Revolution was a break-away movement, spearheaded by the colonists' existing political, military, financial and intellectual leaders, against what had become basically a foreign occupation dictated by a semi-mad king on the other side of the ocean.

Sorry; I don't buy it. the American Revolution was much more than a rich man's conspiracy to get out of paying taxes. You're seriously belittling those who fought and died for independence, when you accuse them of being simpletons who got suckered into it. Benjamin Franklin wasn't rich. Neither were many of the others who signed the Declaration of Independence, quite literally putting their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor on the line for something they believed in.

Maybe you're confusing George Washington and the American Revolution with the Koch brothers' sponsorship of the Tea Party?

--The colonists in America were revolting against long-distance despotism by the British, not rising up against their own homegrown institutions and leaders.

See above. Again, you're misrepresenting and trivializing what really happened, for your own ideological purposes. The British Crown insisted on viewing the colonies as possessions: as assets to be squeezed and milked for the benefit of England and the Royal treasury, rather than treating the colonists as the full-fledged British citizens they were supposed to be.

--edit: The depth of the split between the colonies and the mother country was shown by the willingness of the British to use foreign troops against them: a quarter of the British forces (the Hessians) were hired from various German principalities. In some cases those German troops had been told they were enlisting to protect the colonists from Indians, and didn't learn better until they arrived.cheers
B[/QUOTE]

 

Many of us trace our ancestry to these "Hessians", including me. They were rented out by, among other, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II,_Landgrave_of_Hesse.

Johannes(John) Borders was one of these.

BOSE / BODE - American Name was John Borders, maybe Johannes Bode, b.1752/3, Private, Bose Regt. Hetrina II #1064- at Liebenau D-3521, now 34396 Liebenau/Hessen, 25 km NW of Kassel. 4,Comp. Kassel Regt.v.Bose, reported wounded in march 1781. No other dates given, no discharge date, and not on any Muster roll.

http://silvie.tripod.com/hesb.html

 

Don't flatter yourself. You aren't so important that I waste time and energy being prejudiced against you....

But I don't see how you could have missed the news coverage of the UC Davis incident, unless you're deaf and blind or you've been living in a cave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjnR7xET7Uo

There are actually multiple videos of the event. Try googling next time, instead of just automatically casting doubt.

And the old woman you sneered at, for looking like a homeless person who just barfed? She's real, she's 84 years old, and she's not homeless. But for some odd reason, elderly women don't look their sexiest best after taking a direct hit in the face with pepper spray, then being doused with something to try to counteract it.

 

My maternal grandmother had Pennsylvania Dutch ancestors, so I wouldn't be surprised to find there's a Hessian or two hiding in the woodwork....