"Life Tender" as an alternative to life raft

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Owly, Jun 20, 2018.

  1. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Louisa SY30 (StornowaY) - - Photographed by Sean Glackin on March 7, 2011 - - Uploaded on TrawlerPhotos.co.uk on March 22, 2011

    Foundered with three fatalities and one survivor on April 9, 2016, see the posts #12 & #15 for details.​

    [​IMG]

    Note the life raft stored at center on top of the wheelhouse, if they also had a hard dinghy stored there, then most probably all aboard would have survived the foundering, since a hard dinghy is far less prone to failure by lack of maintenance, and also can easily regular be inspected by everyone on board, which makes it even less prone to a possible failure, when compared to the sensitive and complicated life raft with a high maintenance and inspection load.

    [​IMG]

    Louisa SY30 recovered on May 14, 2016, and taken to Glasgow via barge.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
  2. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    this is way I'd like a system to inflate something inside the boat to keep it at least on the surface decks awash

    shouldn't be too hard to make it fully automatic when it senses a couple feet worth of water inside the boat.

    then you'd still have the boat's food and water, clothing, etc, and much better chance of savage.
     
  3. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    S-D, when something automatically inflates inside the boat then someone could get trapped and suffocate as a result, and automatic systems need maintenance, and even then can fail, and the partly flooded boat with the other part filled with inflatable flotation would become inaccessible to reach the food, water, clothing, etc. inside. It would be better to have sufficient permanent built in flotation to reach your goal, I think.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  4. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    An example, the MacGregor 26M, note the permanent built in flotation being marked in the drawing...

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    Safety features...

    [​IMG]

    ‘‘ We drilled a hole in the bottom of the boat and let it fill. The boat has built-in solid foam flotation to keep it afloat in the event of damage. It won’t sail well when fully flooded, and it will be unstable, but it beats swimming. Most competing boats do not offer this essential safety protection, and their heavy keels can pull them straight to the bottom. Don't get a boat without solid flotation! ’’
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
  5. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Yachting Monthly: Trying to sink an unsinkable boat July 2, 2015 - (an Etap 21i as example )

    [​IMG]
    ‘‘ We expected the seacocks to gush, but they merely dribbled ’’

    [​IMG]
    ‘‘ The boat took a long time to fill up – even with all three seacocks open ’’

    [​IMG]
    ‘‘ The bunk locker lids were barely awash when the water ingress stopped ’’

    [​IMG]
    ‘‘ Even flooded to the waterline*, there was still plenty of freeboard thanks to the closed-cell foam that fills many of her cavities ’’
    * meaning there's inside and outside the same water level

    [​IMG]
    ‘‘ ‘Unsinkable’ means freeboard is reduced by less than 3 per cent of LOA when flooded ’’
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
  6. sailhand
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    sailhand Junior Member

    Hi owly, I couldn' agree with you more. One of the main incentives in designing my dinghy was to have an unsinkable craft that rows and sails and motors well. I wanted self draining with shelter, provided by an off the shelf pop up tent with fibreglass springy thingy at a cost of thirty dollars, that can be erected on the massive completely flat deck. A small sea anchor use for 7metre size fishing boats is also available cheaply off the shelf. The dinghy is made from self extinguishing pvc foam so would hopefully survive a fire which is the only thing that can sink my 44ft catamaran. There are solid attachment points for stores and equipment and I think it would be fairly good in survival situations. I wanted the self draining flat floor to be able to stay reasonably dry and comfortable. Water is the main issue in long survival stints at sea. Not only making it but also storing enough to survive. The lightest most compact method I have found for making water is the solar stills that are inflatable. I have a pur survivor as well however the membrane would need to be replaced I imagine as it has not been used for ten years. I mention the equipment necessary for survival as the life raft dinghy needs to carry this equipment or your chances of long term survival are severely reduced. I think the largest dinghy that you can comfortably carry aboard would be the best all round option. If i am half way across the pacific and I end up in my dinghy and my epirb fails then it is possible that I might need to travel some distance. Of course this is all the worst case scenario and I doubt I will ever end up in this situation. It is prudent seamanship to be prepared for such events however and this is my plan. I must also add another aspect to this survival dinghy design and that is the ability to survive capsizing and swamping, this is possibly the inflatable life rafts best feature, that is if it inflates and if it holds together. In the Ill fated 98 sydney to hobart two guys ended up in a liferaft that turned into a life ring. The floor and the roof tore away in the harsh conditions however the remains of the raft did save the life of one of them I think. I never ever want to be where they ended up. I think my dinghy will survive swamping and capsize easily I feel the problem will be trying to stay with it and not being injured by it in such conditions. Much food for thought and a great idea for an open source design on this site. My vote goes to a craft made from pvc foam and glass, the rest of the design is wide open for discussion.
     
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  7. goodwilltoall
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    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    Even in my formative stages of understanding boat design (still have much to learn) right upto today, the reliability of a hard dink/life raft would be much preferable to an inflatible raft. Certain countries require the inflatables I still would have the dink that is used everyday, u can fit floatation, sun protection, sails, or whatever you feel necessary to survive the conditions you will encounter as they are different from place to place but pretty much ready to go as well as the skills to launch and use it immediately because now its an everyday item rather than something stowed for the day of emergency, good luck with that thinking.

    Usually try not to judge others but this reeks of special interests. If they were really serious about "life saving" then in the design phase a proper placement of a real life raft would be part of the plan for all commercial vessels
     
  8. goodwilltoall
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    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    Btw, a thumps up for the much maligned Mac Gregor 26, truly shows Roger's thoughts for peoples safety
     
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  9. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Sadly that could easily happen today and still fit all present regulations, since ISO 9650-1* is excluding abnormal conditions such as hurricanes, while I think that's when there's most chance one ends up in so called life saving equipment.

    * goes for offshore navigation type I life rafts aboard recreational boats under 24 m (78 ¾')
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  10. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    ISO 9650 summary top.jpg
    ISO 9650 summary bottom.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  11. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    TANSL, that's baseless wishful thinking and completely false, and it's also dangerous to assume and proclaim, and it clearly lacks any kind of knowledge about the self regulating ISO 9650 life raft standard, and the world wide legislation about this, since e.g. countries like the Netherlands, UK, Belgium, Germany have no legislation at all for life rafts on board any recreational craft*, while other countries like e.g. France, Spain, Italy only require compliance to the ISO 9650 standard for life rafts on board recreational craft* under 24 m (78 ¾'), which legally doesn't require any up to ISO 9650 testing by the manufacturers who produce and sell life rafts under the ISO 9650 label, since it's assumed to be a by the manufacturers self regulated standard.

    Besides the ISO 9650 full version for you to look up and check out, below also an interesting article to clear your fog a bit...


    ‘‘ . . . . While there are strict rules about the manufacture of yachts and life jackets, ISO 9650 is self regulating: legally, no one has to test whether a life raft meets the standard. As a consumer, you are simply expected to take the manufacturer’s word that it does. . . . . ’’

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    P.S. - * in non commercial use - (is an addition which came up from post #27 & #28)
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  12. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    A

    What do you mean by... no legislation?

    Since in the UK's MCA Code of Practice for recreational boats etc (Red Code) it states:

    upload_2018-6-25_8-44-48.png
     
  13. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  14. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Angelique

    Err..quite right, well spotted :rolleyes:
    I only have/use commercial codes.....i should have checked first! :D
     

  15. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    So what was the purpose of this thread ? To have people with self-inflating life rafts lose sleep by implanting a "nagging doubt" ? Is there any evidence that properly installed and maintained, they fail at an unacceptable rate ? If there is, it would seem to offer a golden opportunity to makers of such things to step forward with a superior product, and scoop the market, using horror stories of the inferior offering this thread suggests are the present standard, as part of the sales pitch.
     
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