Lament after buying study plan

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by Wellydeckhand, May 20, 2006.

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  1. tomas
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    tomas Senior Member

    Though I am a new member, I've read quite a bit of older threads here looking to increase my knowledge and I find PAR's posts to be both knowledgeable and credible.

    Also, looking through the US website, the content is consistent with PAR's version of events.

    If he has talent and creativity, why are the offerings recycled versions of past designs whose rights have already been sold to the new business owners? Objectively, you must admit that this would create doubt and arouse suspicion in anyone's mind, yes? Would you do this?

    If there is another side to this story, it's hidden from me.
    If you have other information to offer, please present it.

    If you have reason to suspect PAR's motivations, please present that as well.
     
  2. BPL
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    BPL Senior Member

    What were the terms of the sale is what I asked.
    Was there a written contract?
    Did it include distribution rights or exclusive rights?
    Was geography part of the agreement, AU and US?
    Were there any timeframes?

    It was said this was all "well documented."
    Where do you see the court or contract documentation then?
     
  3. tomas
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    tomas Senior Member

    Indeed, I see your point but you didn't address the question that I raised in response to your critique of my earlier post. The courts indeed decide the legality but the 'appearance' on BR's part since coming to the US isn't good, wouldn't you agree?

    Without exaggeration, I was actually a little shocked to learn of an already established business with the same name back in Oz. Is that unreasonable?

    My advice to Mr Roberts would be to now present a new design along with a new website, perhaps under a different name. For example, I'd love to see more power-Trimaran project boats. There are few to choose from.
     
  4. BPL
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    BPL Senior Member

    I could make wild guesses to address your question. They'd be worth zero without having more documented facts.

    Where is the court transcript?

    What did the written contract set out for terms for the business name, the plans, and the business? Reproduction rights, IP ownership, or anything about exclusivity / non-compete?
     
  5. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    BPL, no one in their right mind is going to publish civil court transcripts and it's likely there's a NDA preventing such an action. Yes, there was a sale, which I remember from the early 90's. Yes, there have been several suits and obligatory counter suits, none of which have been positive for BRG. No, there isn't two companies of the same name, though BRG is trying hard to weasel previously sold rights away from BRI, using a time honored approach, of seeing how many times they can get away with abuses, before the next case is raised/decided.

    BRG's rights to the original BRI plans have been sold multiple times, since the initial sale. If they (BRG) where really interested in their plan rights, they'd have found a way to buy them back or enter into some sort of agreement. Of course, this is much more costly and legally challenging, than just flooding the net with hype, slanderous innuendo and plain 'ol BS about what they actually own. Bluntly put, BRG found it's way into such financial ruin, it had no choice but to sell it's most precious items (plans rights). Considering their business practices since the sale, they're less valued than beating on the companies (yes, plural) that purchased them. This is the primary reason BRG has such a crappy business reputation. If you really want to know what's up, call Bruce. Within 30 seconds of mentioning this debate, you'll quickly find what type of person he is and why the rage continues.

    The sale and settlements are public record, though I don't feel the need to look them up, as I know what they are, they are available in both the US and Australia.
     
  6. BPL
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    BPL Senior Member

    If what you said is true, why did BRI say this on their website in 2006 then?
     
  7. waikikin
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    waikikin Senior Member

    That may be where some of the dispute stems from.... although I don't know the exact chronology of designs drawn or agreements between various parties.... this seemed to blow up over the promotion & sales of more recently? drawn vessels developed into kits & offered for sale under names such as "Bermuda" & "Voyager" that appear very similar in length, layout & construction.
     
  8. BPL
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    BPL Senior Member

    How do you find and read the settlement that you said is "publicly available" then?
     
  9. BPL
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    BPL Senior Member

    Better, how can this "sale" public record be found and read?
     
  10. Lister

    Lister Previous Member

    No newcomer knows about the work of Nigel Irens ( I read your post)
    Consider re-writing your post.
     
  11. tomas
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    tomas Senior Member

    Apparently I am making wild guesses in your view and we will not agree on the circumstantial aspects, which is all I was commenting on.

    Agree to disagree.
     
  12. tomas
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    tomas Senior Member

    Exactly the point PAR wrote about and what I'm reacting to, not the contractual details. Completely new designs would be better and I as a potential customer, would always prefer more choices.
     
  13. tomas
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    tomas Senior Member

    I also wrote that I've spent time reading through the older forum threads.
    I've also done month-by-month Google Image searches for Trimarans which for some reason, only dates back to April 2008, though older images are shown.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=tri...dr:1,cd_min:4/1/2008,cd_max:5/1/2008&tbm=isch

    My nautical ignorance would probably surprise you.
    I find sail plans to be very confusing, for example.
    Ditto for marine jargon of all sorts.
     
  14. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The recent spat of discontent is likely two fold, the first is the non-compete clause portion of the agreement is probably up and second, the tactics BRG has employed since the non-compete clause has been satisfied.

    You don't need to read a settlements exact terms to know one exists. The exact terms very likely fall under a NDA, like most do and when the non-compete clause expired, BRI politely recognized there would be newly competing sets of plans, which they revealed on their site, without the 72 point, bold and flashing text used on the BRG sight.

    Again, if you want to get a feel for the personalities involved, call Bruce and mention the debate and watch the timer, as his business savvy rises up and pops. Then call BRI and note the differences. You decide which you'd like to do business with. I've spoken with both. A quick tip, don't mention the rudder stock and port arrangement, on his steel 44 cruiser, if you're fond of your hearing. Just a warning.
     

  15. Lister

    Lister Previous Member

    Don't to worry to much about sail plans, they confuse everyone, even some pros ;)
    OK, you are a newcomer, with knowledge. My apologies
     
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