Kurt Hughes Daycharter 36

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by Charly, Mar 10, 2010.

  1. cmclaughlin
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    cmclaughlin Junior Member


    It must be an incredible feeling. She looks wonderful.
  2. groper
    Joined: Jun 2011
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    groper Senior Member

    Good on ya charly!

    Might be sailing by Xmas?
  3. Charlyipad
    Joined: May 2014
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    Charlyipad Senior Member

    Yeah sure hope so. Mast and sails are ordered. I still have an awful lot of hardware layout and installlation to do, not to mention cosmetics :D
  4. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    waikikin Senior Member

    Looks great, well done & enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool:
  5. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Steve W Senior Member

    Congratulations Charley, the closest a guy can come to giving birth and not many of us get to experience it.

    Joined: Jun 2014
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    UNCIVILIZED DIY Junkyard MadScientist

    CONGRATULATIONS Charley! She looks sweet. Glad to see her where she belongs!

    I haven't been on the forums much in a while, so this tip is a bit tardy. But about your concerns of the Harken car setup. Used, Big Boat cars come up for sale on eBay all the time. Some with track & other accessories even, for cheap.

    Also, you can link them together. Either with a piece which you manufacture yourself, or the ones made by Harken. We used to do them that way on the main sheet cars on Maxi's. So such a setup will take the load, & give you peace of mind.

    And if the bog in the ends of the tubes needs some "help", it can always be milled out, & replaced with G10. You can thread that stuff pretty much the same as any kind of metal. And it's strength on par with or higher than aluminum.
    Just if you glue or bolt some solid rod stock into the tubes in lieu of the bog, make sure to drill out hollow "cones" into the butt ends, so as to not create hard spots at the ends of the G10 in the tubes.
  7. Charly
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    Location: st simons island ga

    Charly Senior Member


    We took the boat down to Merritt Island Fla. over the last few weeks for the mast stepping. Note the big a** tangs. Sails are being sewn by Scott Morgan of Cocoa. I hope to have them on in a few weeks. Still have to mount the mainsail and headsail tracks and get everything up and running. (anyone have any triple block mainsheet setups for sale?)

    Yet to be done:
    Fine tune tramp tie off and tensioning (I used 2" seatbelt webbing and like it so far, I just need to be able to cinch it up easily)

    Stanchions (I hope to use ss tube over fiberglass or g10 rod stubs glassed thru the deck) ideas?

    Rebuild anchor roller and mount. the setup I have now works ok, but was thrown together for the trip. It works pretty good, but I need to fine tune it. more on that later.

    Rebuild steering. I just don't like the existing setup. I am going to try Sam Sams suggestion of flipping the tiller heads backwards with a single cross-rod connector, and at the same time I will put a net across the aft part of the beam... I just need more storage space etc:p

    interior is still rough. will need bunks and a head and a little place to set up a camp stove. I have my propane fish cooker and a "kitchen box" for the deck. A dodger and an awning are also a "must have"

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  8. groper
    Joined: Jun 2011
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    groper Senior Member

    Good stuff Charly.

    Our boat has fiberglass rods as stanchions. No need for stainless.no leaks. Use Dynex instead of ss wire for the lifelines too.

    Must be the time of year for it, our mast is being stepped today also :)
  9. Charlyipad
    Joined: May 2014
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    Charlyipad Senior Member

    Methinks It Like A Sterring Systom

    Richard Dawkins fans might appreciate the title. The steering system has definitely been through many iterations at this point, and is still evolving.

    I scrapped the working system that I had going since the splash. I think it would have failed pretty soon, probably at the threaded rod/yoke connection at the ends of the aluminum cross arms. That 1/4 inch rod kept getting bent and straightened back out to the point that I am sure the metal was pretty stressed. I have ordered a 3/8 inch replacement and will re bore and re set with bog etc, into the ends of the crossarm.

    I also took the opportunity to flip the tiller heads 180. So then I had "bassackerman":D I think I got it right though, I just unpinned and reversed them. It made my brain hurt. Oh, and when the noseeums come out my brain quits altogether. Anyway I think bassackwards is better because now the yoke and threaded rod is not stressed when the rudder kicks, and the cross arms don't rub on the holes where they pass through (a real annoyance). You can now actually still turn the rudders with one or both rudders kicked up. I still have those uglyass holes though.

    Flipping the tiller heads meant that the existing rods were then too short, and they still didn't have a clear path due to the sides of the sugar scoop. So i whacked them off and joined them together in the middle, making one long crossarm. The obvious drawback is that now the crossarm is more exposed, and might cause a significant problem in a big following sea. I just don't know yet. There are other things that can probably be worked out- compression on the long aluminum crossarm causes it to bend a bit, making tensioning the steering lines a challenge. At this point in the experiment, the steering lines are just 1/4" sta set tied off t the tiller heads on each rudder and at the base of the steering arm beneath the helm. If it works out I can make a more permanent arrangement with turnbuckles and chafe gear etc. I put a bungee on each tiller head to help keep them down. Hard to see it all in the photos.

    Anyway, overall i am ecstatic about the boat, but the steering system has so far been a huge pain. METHINKS.

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  10. snowbirder

    snowbirder Previous Member

    Charly, having wrestled with steering a while myself, I'll add some opinion.

    Take it or disregard it.

    Try hydraulic or push/pull cables if hydraulic is out of reach financially. Let the pre-made steering system work out the synchronization of the rudders and ditch that bar. The tie bar will make it difficult and hazardous to approach with your dinghy in rougher conditions. It also makes diving off the stern beam for a swim less than ideal.

    Steering, imo, is not a great place to reinvent the wheel (no pun intended)when there are so many workable choices out there.
  11. Charlyipad
    Joined: May 2014
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    Charlyipad Senior Member

    Odds n ends the latest

    Sorry about the photos. I switched to a macbook air and haven't figured out how to manage photos very well.

    Anyway, the awing frame is now on. I am having a sunbrella top made that will be stiffened with battens, and tie down to the frame with lines and cleats. It will have a slight camber as it will pass over a 2" pvc pipe in the middle, running fore and aft (not shown) I am trying to figure a good place to store a MOB pole, and that might be it.

    The forward part, at the solar panel, will have a removable dodger that will wrap around the front of the mast. There will be a canvas window panel above the solar panel that can be "reefed" (no isinglass).

    The frame is made of schedule 40 1-1/4 inch aluminum, from online metals.The aluminum connectors come from a place called "zoro". They are pretty cool, I think- not terribly expensive and easy to work with. The whole thing is strong and pretty light.

    Daggerboards. argh. A close second behind steering in the PITA dept. They work, but the control lines as set up don't allow you to raise them clear of the water. I am afraid I just won't be happy till I have figured out a way to control them up and down, from the helm. Still thinking about that. Oh and mothers, tell your children to measure CAREFULLY when they build their boards and trunks, or there will be misery. enough about that.

    The boat sails great. I can't even describe the rush when you put the sails up the first time and charge off. Still some details to sort out, though, like where and how to run the jib sheets. For now, I have some simple blocks lashed to the deck cleats with a loop, and run the sheets from the track stand up block , and out perpendicular to the side, then aft to another block, then to a fairlead and a jam cleat. The normal way. no self tending. It works, but needs refinement. a winch would be nice, but you can get by without it on this size boat.

    I hope that some of my input here can help others save some time or get new ideas if you are building. I appreciate all advice or comments.

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  12. Charlyipad
    Joined: May 2014
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    Location: St Simons is ga

    Charlyipad Senior Member

    I appreciate that. I only wish that the steering had all been cut and dried out for me before I ever started. I have wasted a ton of time and money on it. The problem is, I followed the plans, and what I ended up with was way less than acceptable. The level of detail was unfortunately lacking, and so discoveries kept rearing their heads way after the ball had been snapped. I really never wanted to wander off the reservation.

    The crossbar height worries me though. head sea or following. if it is a big chop, I think you are right there may be problems.
  13. snowbirder

    snowbirder Previous Member

    Yeah, we all have our little problem areas. I know most of mine was understanding the hull build and especially moving parts of the boat around. Also wasted a lot of $$$ on that until I was past the learning curve.

    I flatly dismissed Kurt's steering plans. Exposed tie bars were not on my list of things I found I'd be willing to compromise on. They sat with me as well as his underwater block system for the kickups. I simplified things anywhere I could.

    In the hull construction, I tried harbor freight electric tools, them dewalt, burning them all out and losing quite a bit of money before buying a good air compressor and air tools.

    I spent way more trying to figure things out than If I got good air tools to start.

    I feel like you may be doing something similar with steering, so I'm putting up a caution to you.

    I know you don't want to hear it....
  14. Charlyipad
    Joined: May 2014
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    Location: St Simons is ga

    Charlyipad Senior Member

    I very much want to hear it. That is the main reason I post here.

    The kick-up function was a big selling point for me when I chose this plan. If there is a way to have kickupability with a cable steering and a tiller, I would love to explore that, or any other sensible method option out there

    I appreciate all input.

  15. snowbirder

    snowbirder Previous Member


    I used Teleflex push/pull at the suggestion of Richard Woods. This page author doesn't like it, but I think with the balanced rudder, I'll have less forces than one would expect. I fully planned to go passive hydraulic with liquid tie bar, but had some serious life changing issues that screwed up my fit out budget.

    So... push pull for me until after I get my rig and the rest of the boat done.

    If I had the funds, I'd 100% go hydraulic with liquid tie bar.

    Another alternative that could work with a tiller may be to route standard open/dual steering cables through your aft box beam, then pop out only for a few inches to miss the watertight aft bulkhead, going through the old tie rod hole to a quadrant on each rudder post. A thought.

    The kickups were huge on my list too. I'm saying some of Kurt's design stuff borders on overly complex. To hold the kickup cassette in place using a system of underwater lines and blocks was imo... utterly insane. ha ha ha The growth on all that gear would be ridiculous. I felt his steering system was overly complicated in much the same way. To hold cassettes in place, a simple "fuse" type piece of wood across the aft most part of the hull, below the last transom step, that you can also rotate oit of the way to lift the cassette is infinitely more reliable and a lot cheaper.

    Steering wise, same deal. Try for already engineered, pre made stuff that you can install and forget. I honestly think it will cost lessnin the long run.

    Example: My steering, autopilot, Dual function outboard controls and remote key start for outboards all cost around 4 grand. For all of it. And it's all brand new, engineered to work with what i have and is an install rather than a problem to solve.

    PS: on kick up, i lose steering. It pops off and must be set back into place. This is ok, imo. I think thats the only advantage to the tie bar.
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