Kayak sailing

The UFC: stage 4 is the river section. This year because of the drought and the extremely low water conditions there has been some flexibility in the rules. The portage could be much longer than the normal 40 miles, but you have to tote your boat and gear over land by either walking or pulling with a bike. No motorized help of any kind!

The boat switch rule: this came about after I had some time into designing "Bad Kitty", my folding cat design. My boat was meant to sail fast but also get up through the river sections on various propulsion methods, rowing, paddling, sculling and peddle prop. The boat switch rule took the wind out of my sails as it basically changed the game completely. Originally it was one boat and do the course, but now it's two boats one to go around florida and another for the river section, to me that's cheating and underminds my designs for line honors. Now the winning formula would be a two man cat team plus a K2 for the river.

Note: Randy Smyth is entered in the UFC with his trimaran "Sizzors" . It will be VERY interesting watching his progress!
Here's an interview

a thread about it here on boatdesign.net

and another thread

sorry for the total hijack there .....

 

Can a kayak be powered with a small kite? Could it go to wind and tack?

 

I had a 3 sail lug-rig for "Pioneer"(Klepper clone) two seater.

main mast with lug rig and fore sail(forgot name) and lug rigged mizzen mast.

Unfortunately, I never got it on a boat but made sure to give it a good home when I was thinning out to move.

Seemed like a pretty ambitious amount of sail even with out-riggers.

Was was thinking you could remove the main mast and put the mizzen in its place and it would still be more or less balanced and that would greatly reduce sail area, and complexity.

I remember previously seeing a very grainy photo of German troops 'somewhere in Russia' with a similar rig on a two man Klepper style boat, but what struck me was it looked like they had two sets of two-piece paddles being used as clabber-boards attached to the sides of the boat!

Maybe the paddles were just apart and leaning on the boat, but I don't think so. Reminded me of a plesiosaur. Wonder if they could use the paddles as legs that rotate at the gunnel to pull the boat up past the mud. Who knows....... two guys, four stubby legs, one light boat.

To me this would be the 'deal maker' vs 'deal breaker' for a sailing rig on kayak or canoe. Boat is just too small to carry two sets of gear for paddling and sailing, and on a two man you could have one paddle as a paddle and the other as clabber-board. Carrying a set of sails, AND clabbers as "dead weight" and trying to paddle when you need to just paddle seems too much, as does having paddles in the way when trying to sail such a small boat.

I guess it would help to have custom paddles with more streamlined 'keel' profile as all paddles I've seen are somewhat 'lumpy' in that flow direction.

 

Supposedly yes, but it didn't work for me. A kite is easier to operate from a board I suspect.

 

Sailing canoes/kayaks fall into two main categories. At one extreme the sail is just an afterthought for downwind use on a paddling hull, and it doesn’t really need a sail - a large folding umbrella works fine and is less obtrusive than a sail rig. At the other extreme are the International Canoe and trimarans, where the paddling efficiency is compromised and weight and compactness is secondary; some might say that a sailing dinghy makes more sense and can be rowed home.

Between these extremes is an entire spectrum of experimenters with their ideas, all seeking the Holy Grail of adequate upwind sailing ability combined with easy paddling and tuck-under-one-arm and carry-home compactness. This describes my Bruce Foil rig described in Post #7; folded down it did not interfere with paddling, could be raised in about 30 seconds and folded down for paddling just as quickly, and sailing capability was adequate and safe on a reach or run. However it was apparent it could not make useful progress upwind. That would have improved with a bigger rig but at the cost of greater weight, less compactness, and more complexity. Eventually I gave up the experiment and built a small row/sailboat . . .

 

Interesting thread here for sure,

I too have to build the sail and rig for my boat this spring.
(though I do have plans for it).
Being a nooby I find it very interesting to hear your concerns and considerations. both successful and unsuccesful .
There is soooo much to consider. I "tip my hat to you" Ancient for
your trials and efforts . Though my boat is a small dory I tend to think
of it "sail-wise" as being closer to this thread (in some ways) due to the flat bottom/narrow hull and shortness of length. I think it really quite a feat how well many canoes and kayaks sail.

just a note to say thanks for your posts.
and as i said, interesting thread.

 

I should point out, perhaps, that sailing with a big sail on a small boat like a kayak or canoe necessarily tends to become an athletic endeavour. At my age (72) that is less attractive to me than it might be to others, so I may have a built-in bias that i didn't allow for in my previous posts.

 

I have been sailing and kayaking (and built both) for over 40 years. I have never found a sail rig that really works well in a kayak, just for the reason ancient kayaker states. A small narrow hull is not really suited for a sail, too hard to control. the only except I can thing of is to lash two kayaks to a frame and make a catamaran out of it.

If you keep the sail rig small and simple, easy to deploy and stow, and use it for only down wind running, it should be manageable. (Something like a beach umbrella). Otherwise it just becomes something to slow you down and get in your way.

In general you do not want to go sailing in a kayak, and you do not want to go kayaking in a sail boat.

 

Ancient,
if your bias than I'm bias too

I've always liked this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNORilpYkQo

 

What I am thinking is one of the kites used for kite board sailing and a white water kayak all buttoned up with a skirt on the occupant. maybe with some kind of CB. I can just picture this thing comming up out of the water and doing flips like the kite boarders. Any reason why not? I am in my mid 70s and my windsurfer days are over otherwise I would give it a go.

 

Have you ever launched a kite boarding kite? Doing that while in a kayak, with a spray skirt on would be quite the feat! Then there's other concerns like where is your paddle while your hands are busy with the kite lines?

I'm seriously looking into the FEKs sail for a seakayak.
http://www.flatearthkayaksails.com/
There is only so much sail you can put up on a kayak without making it a catamaran or trimaran.
This FEKs sail seems to have the right size to make it manageable.

I want sail assist with my kayak but I want paddle assist with my sailboat. And I do have plans to launch a kite boarding kite off my catamaran. Plenty have done it successfully and documented it on youtube.

 

I've never touched a kite boarding kite, but if the kite was the same size a the FEK sail would it really be all that hard? Perhaps not worth it if it was not as big as the kite boarding kite (KBK for short?)?

 

there is a thing called a training kite, a much smaller version done on the beach, and even that is a handful . There's lots of lines to deal with and I can see a scenario playing out that would end up looking like something caught and drown in a fisherman's nets.

On my cat I plan on devoting the entire front deck to deploying and retrieving the kite, plus a station with a contraption on it for dealing with the lines to reel them in and out and for steering the boat. I just can't see any of this happening on a kayak. Possibly a sit on top but hardly a sit in type.

others are trying ....

 

I agree, and I can only draw from your experience.
I really like your idea of small and simple, easy to deploy and stow.
thats something I'm going to have to look into further. For the most part
I been thinking a balance rig would work well, and as I don't plan on winning any regattas, there me be some room here to play. I can understand where a big sail could get in your way on a small craft. I believe there is an answer somewhere between size, inertia and stability. Would it be fair to say, finding it is the tricky part?
thanks for the heads up Petros

 

I agree with Petros. After going through 2 beach umbrellas I finally settled on the wind paddle rig. It's good 45 degrees either side of straight downwind and stows in seconds.
http://www.windpaddle.com/

Dino