Just got my study plans! Woods Sango

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by WoodSango, May 14, 2020.

  1. WoodSango
    Joined: May 2020
    Posts: 27
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    Location: Dc metro

    WoodSango Junior Member

    EDIT: See below for the carbon mast diy ideas. Friday May 15th

    Hello all!

    Why I like this design:
    I looked for a design that has a proven track record. A cat, under 30 ft.
    Everything I researched was positive, and all the sailing reports show a good sailing
    Cat, that has a a good amount of performance for the length.
    Im a minimalist When I ***explore***
    So back country camping type travel. Light...
    I never see anymore then 4 on the boat ever, so major space is not needed.
    The boats bigger then a four man tent, holds a composting toilet, and has berths for another couple. It’s going to be my pocket cruising cat, which I feel will serve me well.

    I’m just starting the planning stages of a new build. Woods Sango

    I’m going to use this post for gathering info pertaining to building the Sango.

    Materials
    Technique

    I have some lamination experience, resin infusion, pre preg, ect..


    This is a foam build not ply.




    My plans are to do a full series, building of this Sango. Video/photos/boat design

    So first step is conversion on all things Sango!

    Next step After discussing the build, mid June I’ll purchase plans.


    Then it’s some down time while I order materials for the build.

    Starting Oct I’ll have the materials and will be working full time 50 hours a week
    Until the boat is complete. At this time I’ll be doing daily video updates on the build.
    ect..

    So I’ll get the convo going with a few questions, and see where it ends up!
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
  2. WoodSango
    Joined: May 2020
    Posts: 27
    Likes: 3, Points: 3
    Location: Dc metro

    WoodSango Junior Member

    I have done allot of research on foam core. But as you’ll see, I still like to ask questions
    To verify my own ideas. People here are for more knowledge then me, and I respect the
    Ability to talk shop with people all around the world. I have no doubt the build will benefit greatly from the knowledge I will receive from this forum!

    First question

    What foam core gives me as close to core cell quality and specs without the huge price?
    my main concern is Heat, Will be a tropics boat it’s whole life. Boat will be painted white!
     
  3. WoodSango
    Joined: May 2020
    Posts: 27
    Likes: 3, Points: 3
    Location: Dc metro

    WoodSango Junior Member

    And threads stink without photos! I know....

    So here are a few, incase you don’t know what a Sango is.
    Design still available from Richard Woods
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. WoodSango
    Joined: May 2020
    Posts: 27
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    Location: Dc metro

    WoodSango Junior Member

    Next question is rig (I know way ahead of myself) BUT....

    I want to get started rather soon on the mold to make the mast.

    I’ll give a few hints (much more to come)

    This mast will be made on a mandrel
    Using carbon sleeves (as will everything round-to semi round)
    The technique Is tried and tested! The layup shape ect is not (yet)

    Would you go with a rotating or fixed rig? Both have been done

    what’cha think? Photos below are small 1.5 inch carbon sleeve tubes I did as a test.
    Mast will be done similar.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Welcome to the Forum WS!
    You have chosen a very fine vessel indeed to build (all of Richard's designs are very fine - and yes, I do have a soft spot for them).
    Here is a link to your Sango on the Woods site for reference -
    Sailing Catamarans - Sango - 7.65m version of Wizard http://sailingcatamarans.com/index.php/designs-2/2-catamarans-under-25ft/160-sango

    I can see that this is the start of an epic boatbuilding thread - we shall all follow your progress very keenly.
    Re your first question about foam cores, there are many on here who are veritable walking encyclopaedias when it comes to foam sandwich construction, including Fallguy who is well underway in the build of his demountable Skoota 32 -
    Sailing Catamarans - Skoota 32 demountable version http://sailingcatamarans.com/index.php/designs-2/6-powercats/483-skoota-33
     
  6. WoodSango
    Joined: May 2020
    Posts: 27
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    Location: Dc metro

    WoodSango Junior Member


    Thanks man! I’m looking forward to this. I have looked through many plans, from gunboats (haha) to wharram, Hughes,
    Woods. This little trailering cat just kept calling me back to it. Like the looks, the performance reported, not to big, not to small. enough room for my needs.

    I’ll make sure the build and this thread lives up to expectations! No stopping until the finish line!

    Thanks for the welcome aboard!
     
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  7. WoodSango
    Joined: May 2020
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    Location: Dc metro

    WoodSango Junior Member

    DIY HOMEBUILT CARBON FIBER MAST

    This is for the building technique only. Full disclosure! I’m in no way a professional mast builder. I offer up this technique for open conversation so the community can improve what I already have completed with testing

    Products used: From Soller composite

    carbon sleeves (They make standard and uni sleeves)
    heat Shrink tubes
    I like their epoxy, 820 but more $$ then some others
    cheapest aluminum mast section you can find...maybe a used mast in the same size your project needs.

    Technique:Basic idea..

    Prepare the old mast
    A: sand it clean
    B: apply multi coats of release
    C: tight wrap with release film
    D: more release wax on the release film...(i want to make sure it comes off!)

    Pull the carbon sleeve over the prepared mast (mold)
    Your designer will tell you what the layup should be.

    I’ll leave 2 ft over the end of the mold hanging
    Need to figure a way to tightly attach the other end to the mold. So you can pull the sleeves tight, without slipping. Strong, wide tape will hold. Your going to cut off this end when done. You can also leave a foot or more on this end, and zip tie that. This will leave
    A uncured crumpled up Mess on this end, that gets cut down to the good, cured carbon.
    I think I like tape...on the mold. Just increase the mast length by two feet, and give yourself A margin Of error. Cutting down to good material is easy.

    Once you have the sleeves laying nice, you wet it out.
    Another thing here, making sure the carbon sleeves don’t slide around.
    I use a zip tie on the 2 ft over hang side. This again creates a mess
    Rolls, ect...but it gets cut down to the good laminate. That’s why I say 2 ft one side hanging off mold. And a foot or two on the other side, unless you use tape..

    Good gloves and Use hands like your giving your better half a leg massage...g rated explanation
    Once the carbon is wet remove excess epoxy. You could bag at this stage I guess
    Peel and absorb...your call. I’m just careful with the amount I use and remove any
    Extra.
    YOU COULD ALSO INFUSE THE TUBE..that has been done, search rocket carbon fiber tube with resin infusion, there is a rocket club that infused larger carbon tubes.
    For my Sango, I’m okay with the little extra weight, still lighter then a alum mast.

    Now take your shrink wrap tubes and pull it over the mast. Using a LOW HEAT gun
    Shrink the wrap up. If you don’t burn through it, It will pull down nice and smooth.
    Cure mast (if you use the 820 Epoxy, 90f with heat lamps I rotate the tubes)
    You really want to get fancy. let The mast cool and then post cure it. I just rotate the tubes and run the temps up over 250f a few hours, poor mans ramps, 100f-150-200 ect.. my thinking is better then nothing.

    Now after all that’s done I’ll add epoxy to a section of the 2ft over hang. Heavy!
    I’ll create a hole And add some sort of Metal ring....Once that’s cured up its time to remove the mast from mold.

    Drill holes on the alum mast end connect a carabiner and some rope or metal cable
    On the carbon end (Metal ring) connect a carabiner and rope/cable.

    Using a come along, pull on the alum mast end to slide carbon mast off the mold.
    But first, Don’t forget to say a prayer-chant-burning something ceremonial, that you took allot of time, preparing the release properly!

    Now you may ask okay you have a carbon mast now, no groves, nothing laminated in to attach the tracks to? what about those tracks!

    This one stumped me awhile, as I looked for an easy way to get the track on the mast, without going through all the pita of cutting groves, laminating in track supports ect...
    I wanted a mast that’s not cut open, with as little extra work as possible

    Here it is...
    External - CMPE SailTrack System | Tides Marine https://www.tidesmarine.com/sailtrack/external.php
    See photo!

    MORE DETAIL ON THE TRACK SYSTEM INSTALL
    https://www.shaft-seals.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/EN_CMPE_Sailtrack_Installation.pdf

    Same Technique with boom, poles, and semi tube type beams! All you need is the right shape, Molds, carbon sleeves, epoxy, and some shrink tube! If the part is wider then what you can find shrink tubes in, use peel ply, ect...just need to wrap it under pressure, and be able to get off the material once cured..many options with a search.

    Whatcha think? How about 100.00 a foot, all in! 50 ft mast, under 7k with slides tracks ect included. Wanna call Hall and see the price for a 50ft with hardware?

    Let’s improve what I have here so far! Any comments rants or plain ole hate is welcome!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 15, 2020
  8. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    corecell M is rated for high heat and dark paints afaik

    but for a white boat, you can do divinycel

    what you really need to resolve is wet bagging or infusion

    this will dictate your core requirements...infusion core has resin channels, vac core has perforations for flow through

    My build all wet bagging. Really hard to do in the tropics. I recommend you learn panel infusion.

    Another thing, I can check but iirc, Sango is multi chine...no knuckle? And not round? Dev panel, right?

    so, you can infuse single panels; relatively low stress if you are finicky and can make a no leak table and bag... you will need to resolve how to do panel reliefs/rebates

    I started by building the rebates on the down side of the table. This required taping spacer on the table and precision laying of the glass and core. I found it to be a pita and I had laminating defects now and then on the table side. So, I just flipped things and laminated the exterior up..mucj easier and better.
     
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  9. WoodSango
    Joined: May 2020
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    Location: Dc metro

    WoodSango Junior Member

    Thanks for the info, it’s a round foam version. Original plans are strip cedar.
    I’m not sure what changes on the round foam build, I assume allot.
    I do have some resin infusion experience. So that technique should come a little easier for me.
    The other build methods at this point is like reading Congo...but I’ll learn as I go.

    I have been researching stru cell foam. Looks like I can get a pretty good price if I order enough.
    half the price of the others like div’cell.
    Once the plans come to me, I’ll start researching the build process deeper.
    Good news is the lamination side of it I’m pretty good at.

    Im meticulous, so I won’t be doing anything until I better understand it. Only thing I have going for me on this project!

    Thanks again
     
  10. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    Can you build a round hull and infuse the entire thing on the inside? Then bulkhead and flip and infuse the outside in one shot?
     
  11. WoodSango
    Joined: May 2020
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    Location: Dc metro

    WoodSango Junior Member


    I’ll need allot more research until I know for sure. I prefer a female mold By far.
    Layup on a nice faired, smooth mold surface. Infuse the thing, add the bulks.
    Plans call for a male mold....but I’m sure I can create a female mold from the plans.

    Added expense to make the female mold for sure, but....I can sell the molds after a hatch...pending approval by Mr woods.
    I’ll do that For the next fool that decides to build a boat! Haha
     
  12. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    fallguy Senior Member

    I built in a female frame jig. All dev panel so panels were done before going in..

    59425EE4-4AB2-4811-8621-FCE38618BE15.jpeg
     
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  13. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    fallguy Senior Member

    btw, you can sell the frames, but only to a plan holder; otherwise it is really not right and tantamount to 'splashing' and the board members here frown on it; heavily
     
  14. WoodSango
    Joined: May 2020
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    Location: Dc metro

    WoodSango Junior Member


    Thanks, that’s why I added “on mr woods approval “
    Meaning if someone buys the plans, they can buy the frames.
     
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  15. Rumars
    Joined: Mar 2013
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    Rumars Senior Member

    It is possible to infuse over a male mold, see here: Introducing my diy trimaran boat building project http://www.fram.nl/introduction.html
    This post may also be of interest to you: Efficient way to fabricate a mold ?
     
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