# Is this too much flam??

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by mcm, Apr 18, 2017.

1. Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 158
Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 26
Location: Port Townsend, Wa., USA

### mcmSenior Member

I am looking at a design that has a 0.72/1 ratio between the BWL and BOA.
This gives a 25deg. angle of outboard convex flam from the water line to the shear line on each side.

Is that too much flam?
Is the BWL/BOA ratio too low?
Will this high angle of flam between the waterline and the shear line continuously kill the boats momentum as it heaves in a seaway??

The waterline beam is 6.5'(1.98m) and the beam at the shear is 9'(2.74m).
The shear at midships is 2.75'(0.84m) above the waterline.

2. Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,331
Likes: 470, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1279
Location: Lakeland Fl USA

Semantics involved..... Flam is in some areas is thought of as the curvy outward trending forward section that makes the boat jazzy looking. It may also be a functional design element. Flare is the outward taper from chine to sheer. Let us not get too hung up on language.

If the sheer is 108 inches wide and the chine is 77 inches wide, then the taper per side is (108 - 77)/2 = 15.5. When the height of the triangle is 33 inches then the tangent is 0.469 and the angle is about 25 degrees. That is more than is necessary in most cases. It does give the boat a look of superior ultimate stability which is not necessarily a reality . If the boat is a Banks dory, that angle is actually modest. If it is a cabin cruiser then the flam/flare makes a place for counters and shelves that intrudes less into the living space. You have more deck area too.

In a small boat, excessive flare allows the occupants to get outside the vertical projection of the chine which is likely to make the boat a bit tippy...or worse. In a larger boat as in this likely case, that won't make a lot of difference...unless a numerous crew decides to perch on the gunnel.

3. Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,401
Likes: 1,039, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
Location: Australia

### Mr EfficiencySenior Member

No mention is made of the boat length, or even if power or sail. Might be best to fill that info in.

4. Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 16,565
Likes: 1,555, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
Location: Milwaukee, WI

### gonzoSenior Member

Depends on the design

#### Attached Files:

• ###### carolina flare.PNG
File size:
426.7 KB
Views:
999
5. Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,401
Likes: 1,039, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
Location: Australia

### Mr EfficiencySenior Member

I now see it is posted under "sailboats" so apologies for that. Sounds like a sailing dory or sharpie.

6. Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 16,565
Likes: 1,555, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
Location: Milwaukee, WI

### gonzoSenior Member

Oops .

7. Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 158
Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 26
Location: Port Townsend, Wa., USA

### mcmSenior Member

I use this definition: Flare= concave, Flam= convex.
As relating to the outboard surface curvature of the hull from the waterline to the shear line at mid-ship.

However, whether flare or flam, is 25deg outboard angle at mid-ship from the beam at the waterline to the beam at the shear line to much?
Will a 0.71/1 ratio between BWL and Beam at the shear line stall a boats momentum as it heaves in a seaway?

Yes, it's a narrow beam, light displacement sailboat under 16m.

8. Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,401
Likes: 1,039, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
Location: Australia

### Mr EfficiencySenior Member

Is it flat bottomed with a hard chine ? That more or less dictates a fair bit of overhang at the sides to avoid a slam-a-thon.

9. Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,435
Likes: 185, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 215
Location: Sydney Australia

### CT249Senior Member

There are too many factors for anyone to give a good answer without more information. Is the flam there to support 16 crew as live ballast? Is it a lake boat or a round the worlder? What is "light"? Is it an irc or orci racer? What wind and waves will it sail in?

10. Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,401
Likes: 1,039, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
Location: Australia

### Mr EfficiencySenior Member

Good point CT249, unless the identity of the design is a state secret.

11. Joined: May 2009
Posts: 16,679
Likes: 348, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
Location: Cocoa, Florida

flam

I've been on and around the water all my life. I've designed and built boats since I was 12. I've tried to read every book I could find on yacht design.
But in all that time I've never heard or read the word "flam" used in the context of boat design. So, it's cool to learn something new-thanks!

12. Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 158
Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 26
Location: Port Townsend, Wa., USA

### mcmSenior Member

The hull is round bottom and no chine.
Like with most sailboats the flam is there simply to create a beam that is wider at the shear line than it is at the waterline. The purpose is to create a more livable interior for cruising not racing.
Light displacement meaning 9t on an almost 16m waterline.
The boat is intended to sail along most latitudes and in all wind conditions.

13. Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 852
Likes: 57, Points: 38, Legacy Rep: 571
Location: australia

### bhnautikaSenior Member

Mcm the use of the words flam and flare is generally used (I have found) for around the bow area and flam is seen to be more advantages as it gives a gradual increase in volume, as apposed to flare which is some what more abrupt when the bow enters a wave. In the mid sections, flare seems to be used for the relationship between the waterline beam and the sheer and their angle, 25 degrees is at the upper end which is ok for initial stability but would roll more heavily.

14. Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 158
Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 26
Location: Port Townsend, Wa., USA

### mcmSenior Member

Is your answer based on reading of the pertinent literature on the subject, actual design experience, or simply anecdotal in nature?
Also, could you explain why the 'upper end' of mid-section (flare) such as 25deg. would roll more heavily?

15. Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,401
Likes: 1,039, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
Location: Australia

### Mr EfficiencySenior Member

Do yourself a favour and name the boat that interests you, better still supply some pix/lines, and you are likely to get some decent opinions, at the moment it is guesswork for everyone.

Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.