is there anything like X-plane for boats? (ie simulate behavior in real environs)

Discussion in 'Software' started by big_dreamin, Oct 24, 2016.

  1. big_dreamin
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    big_dreamin Junior Member

    Realized I should just make a separate post for this... for aviation enthusiasts there is a software called X-Plane which uses Blade Element Analysis theory to calculate the forces that act on airfoils under different simulation conditions and provide a surprisingly accurate simulation of how a plane will actually behave under various control inputs, winds, movements and similar. To the point where some kitplane designers have discovered potential dangers in their design that the test pilot later verified and redesigned to get rid of still in Xplane i'm told.


    I would like something where I could model up a hullform in 3d where it would simulate wave mechanics, buoyancy and similar under all sorts of sea states from calm to hurricanes and rogue waves. Just as a way of letting experimenters do that - experiment to see if any clever insights occur or seem to work in a sim that make it worth trying in reality, just with less risk and cost of actual testing of course. (since you don't randomly sail into a gale to prove a point unless youre damn sure of something, in the computer it's no risk)

    Basically a way of test piloting the boat before building it with fairly accurate simulation rules. If there's nothing like this, what comes closest? What even tries or attempts at all?
     
  2. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Have you ever hear about towing tanks and their multiple tests?.
     
  3. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    I understand your reference to to X-planes, and sure that is fine for playing around but I don't think anyone would design a plane based on it. Same for boats, I am sure there some fancy and very expensive software but at the end it is back to the tow tank. Water works very differently than air. What works on one boat doesn't quite work on another the same way. A boat really operates in four separate fluids. Air, surface, subsurface and deeper water. All with different behaviors. A boat has to deal with all in a mix and in a constant changing angles and curves. The closest I have seen is software that can give propulsion estimates based on general hull design, wetted area, windage, weight and draft. But then any old boatmaker can tell you that from experience just about as accurately. Unfortunately I forgot the name of the software, all I can tell you it was free.
     
  4. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    My question for some of the people that have done it is, with todays 3d printers building a one off hull design is not a big deal but I know it needs to be a certain size before tank testing is even relevant. What size is the smallest you can make adequate hull shape performance measurements?
     
  5. big_dreamin
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    big_dreamin Junior Member

    But people have! Before we had modern computers capable of CFD and such, blade element analysis was considered accurate enough in the subsonic realm to design real planes. No it's not state of the art now, but to me it's similar to saying you couldnt design, say, an engine, without a computer... I respond well what did they do before computers then...

    I'm not expecting any such software to be a perfect simulation of anything. But as a realistic form of play it still might lead to insights, since I know of no other way to play what if games as easily.

    Would I depend upon it for a final hullform? No, that's not what I implied i'd do either. Just a tool for things like seeing the difference of placing weight up on the bridgedeck of a catamaran instead of down in a trimaran's center hull in a sea state 5, or wondering what happens if i double the power, or trying different ways of tackling large waves. Doing things I would not want to try in real life and getting a simulation of plausible results.

    Maybe there's nothing out there remotely like X-Plane, but if there is some not well known sim software that others know of please post ideas. (by sim i'm meaning "you pilot/steer the boat you designed calculating at least buoyancy on the structure and wave mechanics" enough to gain a more than completely zero insight into how an actual boat of that configuration/design would handle... ie valuable as a simulator training effect... not something like MatLab or FEA CAD stuff)
     
  6. mtumut
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    mtumut Junior Member

    Pilotage training softwares could train you how to steer at high waves but I did not hear such x-ship. May be it works with CUDA graphic card if you design such a software.

    Aware mit hydrodynamics course requires to study more than 3000 pages of intense math.

    By the way fastest to sim could be panel way but I read a article on ship drag , wave drag , near far field , etc basic cfd software is far from accurate.

    cfd is not used with todays technology and only work been done with results of towing tank. Otherwise no sim is near to perfect.

    So you do some sim but it will not correct but a game.
     
  7. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    You want to know the performance in a hurricane ? The answer is "not very good".
     
  8. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    ROFL....never been in a hurricane but beien in 60-70 mph winds and 20-50 foots seas.... You fall down alot if you really don't hang on.
     
  9. Kailani
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    Kailani Senior Member


  10. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

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