Is the ocean broken?

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by daiquiri, Oct 24, 2013.

  1. ImaginaryNumber
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 434
    Likes: 58, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: USA

    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Please post the graphs in question so that we can understand what you are talking about.
     
  2. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
    Posts: 1,744
    Likes: 129, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 851
    Location: Mexico, Florida

    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    watch youtube flick. Dr. Soon presents the many fraudulent graphs and other cheats by AGW scientists very clearly
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  3. ImaginaryNumber
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 434
    Likes: 58, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: USA

    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    I'm not going to waste my time watching a 2 hour video by a bought and paid for fossil fuel company shill, guessing at whatever it is that you want us to see. If you can't present the specific information, with their sources, then you have nothing.
     
  4. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
    Posts: 1,744
    Likes: 129, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 851
    Location: Mexico, Florida

    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    You have no authority to declare I have nothing. I presume you meant, no information. Yes? I would never imagine anyone or anything could convince you to change little I. You are too invested and committed to your story. AGWers work so constantly and hard to convince others their narrative is correct. I'm only fighting your false propaganda with the truth about your side's unethical tactics and doctored data. You probably shouldn't watch the video, you would bust a vessel or something if you couldn't reconcile evidence you were bamboozled by charlatans and conmen posing as climatologists. . Everyone else gets to decide for themselves if they want the truth or meekly surrender and succumb to your side's nefarious agenda.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  5. ImaginaryNumber
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 434
    Likes: 58, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: USA

    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Confluence of Warm Water Underneath May Trigger Faster Melt of ‘Doomsday Glacier’
    • The Thwaites Glacier, in the West Antarctic Ice Sheet and about the size of Florida, has long been the most worrisome of Antarctica's glaciers
    • Its melting contributes nearly 10% to current sea-level rise
    • For the first time scientists have sent a submarine drone under the glacier to investigate
    • They found warm water currents coming from almost all sides, threatening regions where the ice connects to the seabed
    • These grounding points provide stability to the ice shelf, and therefore, their melting may spell doom to the entire glacier
    Their findings were published in the journal Science Advances
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  6. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
    Posts: 5,763
    Likes: 349, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 2489
    Location: Quam prospectum!

    hoytedow Helmsman

    Heat from submarine drones under Antarctic glaciers contribute to loss of ice sheet and should be banned.
     
  7. ImaginaryNumber
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 434
    Likes: 58, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: USA

    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Once-rare Arctic lightning is now more frequent—and may reshape the region
    • Lightning in the Arctic used to be so rare that people could go their whole lives without seeing any
    • A new study projects that the occurrence of lightning in the Arctic could double by the end of the century
    • That compares to the 50 percent increase projected for the continental U.S.
    • An increase in lightning almost immediately leads to increase in fire
    • Arctic fires scouring away surface soils can release at least twice as much carbon as their Californian counterparts
    • Research suggests that by the end of the century carbon emitted from the Arctic could increase by over 150 percent
    The study was published in Nature Climate Change
     
  8. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
    Posts: 472
    Likes: 196, Points: 43
    Location: Littleton, nh

    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    "We hypothesize that lightning increases may induce a fire–vegetation feedback whereby more burning in Arctic tundra expedites the northward migration of boreal trees, with the potential to accelerate the positive feedback associated with permafrost soil carbon release."
    I can't access the article, but it sounds a lot like a reasoned hypothesis based on statistical trends, rather than any type of experimentation or field studies.
    "We hypothesize that lightning increases may induce a fire–vegetation feedback whereby more burning in Arctic tundra expedites the northward migration of boreal trees..."
    Wouldn't this mean more carbon trapping vegetation would move northward? Borial does mean 'Northern'.

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
  9. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
    Posts: 472
    Likes: 196, Points: 43
    Location: Littleton, nh

    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    "The 2004 Alaska fire season was the worst on record in terms of area burned by wildfires in the U.S. state of Alaska. Though the 1989 fire season recorded more fires, nearly 1,000, the 2004 season burned more than 6,600,000 acres in just 701 fires. The largest of these fires was the Taylor Complex Fire." Wikipedia

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
  10. ImaginaryNumber
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 434
    Likes: 58, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: USA

    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    I'm sure statistics played an important role in their analysis, but they also alluded to the theories of atmospheric physics that suggest that lightning could become more common in the Arctic, as well as possibly less common in the tropics. From the article:

    Chen and his colleagues, including Veravebeke, wanted to estimate how much more lightning those changed climate conditions could induce by the end of the century. They compared the lightning data from the satellite that had recorded Arctic flashes in the 1990s with weather data from the same time period to figure out what atmospheric conditions matched up best with the rare occurrences of lightning in the region.

    Climate models projected those specific lightning-conducive conditions, and by extension lightning—which is slightly different from the overall likelihood of thunderstorms—were likely to happen about one and a half times as often over the tundra in the future and nearly double over the northern forests. That’s a much bigger relative change than the 50 percent increase projected for the continental U.S. Globally, some research suggests there could be actually be a decrease in total lightning activity by 2100, in part because the lightning-rich tropics may warm so much that ice crystals form less often.​
    Fires can destroy sequestered carbon much faster than forests can grow and sequester carbon.

    Furthermore, the peat bogs of the Arctic may hold many millennium worth of sequestered carbon. I suspect it would take a long time for boreal forest growth to make up for what is lost by burning. From the article:

    But the biggest concern isn’t the lightning itself; it’s what the lightning might do. Wildfires anywhere in the world can release the carbon stored in forests and soils. The 2020 Australian wildfires, for example, emitted over 800 million metric tons of carbon dioxide, nearly one and a half times the country’s annual total.

    Fires don’t just burn woody stuff aboveground. “Burning is three dimensional,” explains Michelle Mack, an ecologist and Arctic expert at Northern Arizona University. It combusts organic matter in the soil below the surface flames—and the soil in the Arctic is much more carbon-rich than in other parts of the world. It often holds decades of accumulated carbon just in the upper few inches. Arctic fires scouring away those surface soils can release at least twice as much carbon as their Californian counterparts, Veravebeke says.
    It's not just Alaska that is being affected, but also Canada, Greenland, and Siberia.

    'Unprecedented': more than 100 Arctic wildfires burn in worst ever season
    2019
    ...The largest blazes, believed to have been caused by lightning, are located in Irkutsk, Krasnoyarsk and Buryatia. Winds carrying smoke have caused air quality to plummet in Novosibirsk, the largest city in Siberia.

    In Greenland, the multi-day Sisimiut blaze, first detected on 10 July, came during an unusually warm and dry stretch in which melting on the vast Greenland ice sheet commenced a month earlier than usual.

    In Alaska, as many as 400 fires have been reported. The climatologist Rick Thomas estimated the total area burned in the state this season as of Wednesday morning at 2.06m acres....

    The fires are not merely the result of surface ignition of dry vegetation: in some cases the underlying peat has caught fire. Such fires can last for days or months and produce significant amounts of greenhouse gases.

    “These are some of the biggest fires on the planet, with a few appearing to be larger than 100,000 hectares,” Smith said.

    “The amount of [carbon dioxide] emitted from Arctic circle fires in June 2019 is larger than all of the CO2 released from Arctic circle fires in the same month from 2010 through to 2018 put together.”
    ...

    Another Intense Summer of Fires in Siberia
    2020
    Abnormally warm temperatures have spawned an intense fire season in eastern Siberia this summer. Satellite data show that fires have been more abundant, more widespread, and produced more carbon emissions than recent seasons....

    “After the Arctic fires in 2019, the activity in 2020 was not so surprising through June,” said Mark Parrington, a senior scientist at the Copernicus Atmosphere Monitoring Service (CAMS) of the European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts. “What has been surprising is the rapid increase in the scale and intensity of the fires through July, largely driven by a large cluster of active fires in the northern Sakha Republic.”

    Estimates show that around half of the fires in Arctic Russia this year are burning through areas with peat soil—decomposed organic matter that is a large natural carbon source. Warm temperatures (such as the record-breaking heatwave in June) can thaw and dry frozen peatlands, making them highly flammable. Peat fires can burn longer than forest fires and release vast amounts of carbon into the atmosphere.

    Parrington noted that fires in Arctic Russia released more carbon dioxide (CO2) in June and July 2020 alone than in any complete fire season since 2003 (when data collection began). That estimate is based on data compiled by CAMS, which incorporates data from NASA’s MODIS active fire products.

    “The destruction of peat by fire is troubling for so many reasons,” said Dorothy Peteet of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies. “As the fires burn off the top layers of peat, the permafrost depth may deepen, further oxidizing the underlying peat.” Peteet and colleagues recently reported that the amount of carbon stored in northern peatlands is double the previous estimates.

    Fires in these regions are not just releasing recent surface peat carbon, but stores that have taken 15,000 years to the accumulate, said Peteet. They also release methane, which is a more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.
     
  11. Dejay
    Joined: Mar 2018
    Posts: 620
    Likes: 114, Points: 43
    Location: Europe

    Dejay Senior Newbie



    Some hopium for the masses.
     
  12. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
    Posts: 472
    Likes: 196, Points: 43
    Location: Littleton, nh

    Will Gilmore Senior Member

  13. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
    Posts: 1,744
    Likes: 129, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 851
    Location: Mexico, Florida

    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

     
  14. ImaginaryNumber
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 434
    Likes: 58, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: USA

    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    2075 could be the year the ocean starts emitting harmful gases
    • The ocean could become a source of ozone-depleting chlorofluorocarbons by 2075, according to new research.
    • At the moment, the ocean absorbs the chlorofluorocarbons or CFCs from the atmosphere sequestering them for centuries.
    • But soon, it could reverse its longtime role as a sink for these chemicals, further worsening the climate crisis.
     

  15. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
    Posts: 1,744
    Likes: 129, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 851
    Location: Mexico, Florida

    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    2075? I'll make a note to check the accuracy of your prediction and post the results. Will this thread still exist fifty years from now?
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.