Infusion Plan

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by jorgepease, Jun 4, 2012.

  1. Herman
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    Herman Senior Member

    Quite fast resin. Perhaps make the resin in 2 shifts, the first one being 2/3 of the total, the last 1/3 of the total. And use slow hardener.
     
  2. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Ok, thanks, yes I will do that. Maybe even break it up more as I am doing the hull next and I will require much more resin this time.
     
  3. Herman
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    Herman Senior Member

    Find out the fill time for the hull. (guestimate). Use 2 or 3 feeds instead of one, this makes a lot of difference. (they can be fed from one bucket)

    For a complete hull I feel your geltime is fairly short. I would prefer something slower.
     
  4. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    I am only infusing the outside of the hull. My guess with a few feed lines using fishbone layout is between 30 - 40 minutes.

    I can split that into 4 batches to be safe. I would just have to have the resin and hardeners measured out in batches, ready to be mixed.

    I am a little worried about that MTI line, even if I raise it a bit with flow media and wrap the tops and side with flow media ... I may run a separate spiral next to it just in case that quits sucking.
     
  5. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Since pot life is based on a certain qty of material at a certain temperature and I can not afford to trash this hardener and buy Very Slow hardener I need to control the exotherm. If you chill the epoxy prior to mixing you increase it's viscosity and possibly introduce another problem. The best thing it seems to me would be to keep the exotherm under control.

    I could build a tank cheaply from flashing 2" W x 4"H x 6' length and place it within another cooling box that holds ice/water. The tank would be shimmed on one side slightly. A tank this size would hold almost 2.5 gallons of resin. I need about 4 batches but if each batch is 2.5 gallons I think I can keep up with that.

    Has anyone tried something like this?

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Herman
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    Herman Senior Member

    With a resin at 50 minutes, and infusion time at 40, you should not have any problem. This 50 minutes is in a 500 gram pot, not a laminate (a laminate is longer) so if you refresh the resin 2 or 3 times, you are good to go.

    Keep in mind that chilling increases the viscosity, but will also increase fill time. Net result could be the same.
     
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  7. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Please let me know if this looks correct
    - Right side of image, I have not done left side yet.
    - Hose is spaced 20" apart and ends about 11" from centerline. End of hose is taped off.
    - I will be covering hoses with a strip of resin flow media
    - The resin flow media does not lay very flat.
    - Each side will have 2 feed lines, total of 4. My hope is that will help infuse quickly.
    - The vacuum line will be split into 2 lines (MTI) as well as another spiral wrap which I will use till the resin front reaches it.

    Thanks

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Herman
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    Herman Senior Member

    Looks pretty much OK to me. Just 2 questions:

    -is the infusion mesh already on? I like it to be below the runners, to reduce print. On top of the runners is useful when the bag is a bit weak, and can damage on the spiral. (I mostly recommend 0,003" nylon, which handles the load well, also without mesh over the spiral)

    -The large overlap in the foreground, is that perforated film? If so, overlaps in perf film should be no more than 1".
     
  9. groper
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    groper Senior Member

    I would cut those runners a bit shorter. The runners closest to the resin inlet lines will reach the vacuum first and the others you dont quite know how far behind they will be. I would cut the ends of the runners back so that they are at least 2-3 inches shorter. Using my resin, this would infuse in about 15 mins or so based on the distance of 11 inches. Going up to 13 or 14 inches would be fine. I would mix all the resin in 1 shot with an electric drill mixer (carefully so not to airate) and let it stand for 5 mins to get most of the mixed in air float up.

    I dont think you will need 4 resin lines, probably 1 (1/2" dia) each side would flow enough but i dont know your laminate so cant really say.

    Make sure you do a drop test to test for leaks.

    otherwise, looks good to me.
     
  10. Herman
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    Herman Senior Member

    The vacuum line is MTI hose, and will not suck up resin, just air. So the runner length is not that important anymore.

    As for inlets: your geltime is pretty close to infusion time, so with 4 lines it is "better safe than sorry".
     
  11. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Roger the inputs above, I used both MTI line and 2 spiral wrap lines. I just want to make sure I can pull as fast as the resin can flow.

    I had to tape two sheets of bag together to get enough width. I was careful but my inexperience is sure to have left a leak. Plus I am sure in the wrinkles and pleats I am going to have leaks. This is pretty hard!!!

    I may have to start over with the bag. I don't like the system using tape, once you touch the bag down you can not budge it so any wrinkle and you are screwed. I could have done better with silicone or something like that! Is there any glue which holds up to epoxy that I can use instead of this tape.
     
  12. Herman
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    Herman Senior Member

    You can work the tape pretty hard with your thumb, and stretch the bag over the tape. In general, you must be able to get an airtight seal with the tape. Although I have seen caulk used, it never was really succesful.

    As for the seam in the bag: same there. Work the tape in suspect areas. After pulling a vacuum, you can mostly hear the leaks.

    And for the wrinkles: These are mostly not the cause for leaks. Bag is strong stuff....
     
  13. groper
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    groper Senior Member

    This is why i prefer to put the resin lines in the center, and pull the resin towards the perimeter with the vac lines near the bag edges. So, if you have small leaks in the bag edges or tacky tape, it doesnt matter because the air goes straight into the vac lines and out of the job. When you choose to do it with your strategy, any leaks in the perimeter seal will pull air all the way across your laminate to the vac line in the center. Of course you can check before you start to prevent this, but sometimes there are those hard to find leaks and its frustrating having to pull up the entire job and potentially ruin the plastic film in the process...
     
  14. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Okay, thanks for the input. I see what you mean about vac lines along the edge, I should have done that I guess. I will just have to take extra time to make sure there are no leaks.

    Saturday or Sunday will be the big day, I will post a link to a video if its not a total disaster.
     

  15. Tungsten
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    Tungsten Senior Member

    looking forward to it,thanks for posting this as its been helpfull in my understanding of infusion.
     
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