Incredible "Secrets of Yacht Design" website located...

Just by being himself. Drove the poor moderator (who is a good friend of mine) nuts trying to keep up with his BS. Wasn't worth the effort and I don't blame him for shutting it down. I would have.

 

How did you do it Frank?

Did you pollute yet another electronic medium with you incessant meaningless, baseless gibberish until finally the owners of said medium could take it no longer?

 

Ha! I guessed correctly!!

 

Tell me everyone, Am I crazy for not wanting Frank to post pictures of my boat? I fully believe that Frank has the right to free speech. However, I have my own ideas about sailing. Once in a great while I can find something that he says that I agree with. Most of the time I don't agree. And I don't want to it to be thought that by the use of pictures of my boat, that I support his views.
Frank, Why couldn't you have just said, "I'm sorry I didn't know it bothered you and wont do it again" Instead, You gave a F**k you answer and made wild accusations that have no basis in fact. I may have supported you at times before, but never again.

Scott Awalt
Sugar Magnolia
S2 7.9 #253

 

centerboards & daggerboards

On the subject of moveable foils, I think you have confused on thing with another. I think there is a general prohibition against foils that rotate to get a better angle of attack, and limitations on trim tabs. And, there has traditionally been a prohibition against moving ballast (aside from crew) that is left over from the days of sandbaggers. However, centerboards and daggerboards that are not heavy enough to have much ballast effect can be moved.

The "prohibition" against moving heavy foils is really for boats like the Tripp 26 that are keel boats designed so the keel can be lifted for trailering. Boats like this may have inadequate stability with the keel up, so the keel must be kept in the down position while racing. It's really enforced via rating: the rating is given for the boat with the keel in the down position. I think there are some grey areas. There was a discussion on SA about racing the S2 7.9 downwind with the keel raised. I would have thought that was prohibited, but I have no special knowledge of the class, or of the details on a PHRF rating certificate.

With respect to the large crews used on some of the big boats, there is a tension between technology and sociology. Remember that the owners of these boats tend to be captains of industry who are good at collecting and organizing teams; it's what they do at work, and it's what they do at play. For them, it is a way of using their particular skills and the power of their large purses to set themselves above the common throng. A lot of races now have crew weight limits, and most boats would sneak another man along if they could. Still, an Open 60 with one man aboard can outsail a lot of heavily manned boats of similar length.

 

The S2 7.9 has been designed to pull the board downwind and it is done in one design racing (Class regattas, NOODs, etc.). I have been told this is because it can have the possiblity of "tripping over the daggerboard". It is self righting with the board up due to the fact it carries 1150 lbs of ballast along with the 600lb daggerboard. I have not tried sailing with the board up but have talked to 7.9 sailors who have and they say the boat is very stable when sailed that way. I intend to try it this summer on a non-race day.

 

Hey, the moderator is a fellow named Rich. He was not allowed to do his job and the person who gifted the BB to SSSS took it on himself to moderate. He shouldn't have been involved. I spent one and a half hours discussing the situation with him on the phone last night, because he has read very little of my posts or my web site, and I also consider him a friend for teaching my wife about sailing and taking the photos of Murrelet that I am so proud of.

While not part of the conversation, it is my opinion that he took a lot of heat from the fellow who started the failing Sailing Anarchy Forum for gifting the board to SSSS. So much heat that he now regrets the donation. Sailing Anarchy really is about supporting TP52s and disparaging R Coutts. Oh, go to the TP52 site and click on the many links that claim to support a TP52. These boats do not exist. It is so pathetic.

However, I am the only one that is suppose to think that the SSSS board is shut down. If that is not the case and others can not view the threads there, I would like to know. I can live with out access until it is dealt with through a protest that is now being drafted. Please email me at mighetto@eskimo.com if you see what I see: IE

You have been banned from this forum.
Please contact the webmaster or board administrator for more information.

when accessing http://www.pacificfog.net/phpbb/index.php,
Thanks.

It is one thing to denigh access to some one who through thier membership dues paid for that access it is another thing to denigh access to over 500 sailors who have paid for that access and to the sailors that they hope to interact with who have not yet extended financial support.

 

So they actually banned you from your own club's bulletin board. That's awesome! One day that will happen here.

As for your completely unsubstantiated, inaccurate, and idiotic rant against SA, all I can think to say is:

GOD YOU'RE A DICK FRANKIE.

 

Frank, do you ever stop think why it is that so many people have issue with your personal points of view? Do you honestly believe it is because you are a genius and that you (and your good friend Roger MacGregor) see things that nobody else can?



You have come to a forum dedicated to yacht design, and once here you begin to offer your unsolicited advice to experts on this subject... maybe this has something to do with it... maybe...

 

Philip, you are going to be very pleased with what I am doing for this sport. You need not believe me. Just watch. I know what I am doing. If I end up building Mac26x copies, or some one else does, it will not mater to me. This is my first year as a sailboat racer and I already have accomplished more than many with 10 or more years racing. PS - there are fewer dump people on the West Coast of the US.

 

We (the East Coast) rest our case.......

Dump that, migho.

 

No that is incorrect. The doner of the board has just had enough. Not from me. I am not the one causing him trouble. But others have hounded him by telephone. He is looking for a board member to step up and tell him he is out of the loop. A Board Member other than me. These situations are always difficult when they involve an endowment from a wealthy individual. This will be resolved by normal procedures set forth by the rules of racing. If you would like to dicuss my protest strategy then just say so. I think it is a good one. Even if Tripp Gal et al are not banned from racing the rest of the season, the behavior will be on file for the next fellow that is wronged by them. If I were the only one, I would say - perhaps it is me. But I am not.

 

Love the smilie. Thanks. I am changing my Sailing Anarchy tude on that. It is things like the following that compel me to do so:

Seadrive

On the subject of moveable foils, I think you have confused on thing with another. I think there is a general prohibition against foils that rotate to get a better angle of attack, and limitations on trim tabs. And, there has traditionally been a prohibition against moving ballast (aside from crew) that is left over from the days of sandbaggers.

Excellent leed in as this was the topic I had hoped to get to this week. The story of the sandbaggers. Did you think of it owing to how I was sandbagged during a valentines day massacre.

Sand-baggers were small half-decked boats used for commercial purposes and as party boats by New York sportsmen willing to bet on the races. Wide shallow centerboard craft with huge sails and great beam with two mast steps, one for a sloop rig and one for a cat rig, characterized these movable ballasted racing machines. The movable ballast was in the form of bagged sand and when conditions required the ballast the racers would agree before hand if the ballast was to be "brought home" or thrown overboard during the race. They were 18 to 28 feet in length and popular as early as 1855. These were extraordinarily fast boats in smooth water, perhaps like Melges or Mac26x boats today. However, so that the ballast could be carried out far from centerline the topsides were flared. This meant that the gunwales could be easily burred in the sea with capsizing being the result

Because of their speed, boat designers copied them in bigger models that were not crewed by racing professionals and hence became dangerous. It is because of this that the centerboard yacht gained a bad reputation that should have been credited to poor design rather than to inherent qualities of the type.


However, centerboards and daggerboards that are not heavy enough to have much ballast effect can be moved.

I have been told, but this would be a mater of protest, that if weed is caught on the centerboard it can be moved to clear the weed. But that is about it in PHRF-NW races and it is stretching things. The centerboard or daggerboard MUST have at least enough weight in it that it sinks. Otherwise it is not considered a keel boat and only keel boats are allowed to race PHRF-NW.

The "prohibition" against moving heavy foils is really for boats like the Tripp 26 that are keel boats designed so the keel can be lifted for tailoring. Boats like this may have inadequate stability with the keel up, so the keel must be kept in the down position while racing.

Dude! do you know how long I have been trying to get to this part of the centerboard myth? Hard as I tried, Trip Gal would not go there. Here is the point to be made. There are many keel boaters that believe that all centerboards are good for is for trailering. Just the other day I was told that the only reason MacGregor Yachts has centerboards on its ocean sailboats is for trailering. This totally ignores the owners instructions for the boat and it has caused harm because some owners have been convinced that they need rigging changes to control weather and lee helm. Swing style centerboard positioning controls that. It is a steering control in other words.

It's really enforced via rating: the rating is given for the boat with the keel in the down position. I think there are some grey areas. There was a discussion on SA about racing the S2 7.9 downwind with the keel raised. I would have thought that was prohibited, but I have no special knowledge of the class, or of the details on a PHRF rating certificate.

You can have the boat rated for lifting foils. Mine is so rated for the rudders. The problem is that the same adjustment is made for a lifting foil on my boat (in terms of seconds) as for an S2 7.9. That means you need to protest the adjustment and to have an effective protest you probably need a loosing race season. Who has time for that? What I will be trying to do, assuming my sailing career continues at the wild pace it has recently, is to reduce the penalty by more than half. This just to get more boats to try racing the boat as the manufacturer intended. It also puts the burden of protest on the boats with fixed keels. On these better data has been collected. The final result would probably be class adjustments in ratings for boats with movable ballast. (retractable foils are a form of movable ballast)

With respect to the large crews used on some of the big boats, there is a tension between technology and sociology. Remember that the owners of these boats tend to be captains of industry who are good at collecting and organizing teams; it's what they do at work,

The large crews IMO are also the result of the sandbaggers. When these vessels were upsized for the casual racer, the notion of movable ballast being dangerous was born. Prohibiting this sand bag form of movable ballast required those who wanted to be competitive to replace it with rail meat. Regarding collecting and organizing teams, if that were true then the owners would be good at organizing race events and race clubs as well. Sorry, these fellows need not be good at collecting and organizing teams. You can hire R Coutts, for that. Then once that job is done, you can prepare to fire him and cheat him out of moving to a different AC boat. This is not the conduct of a sportsman and is the reason for Coutts working his protest.

and it's what they do at play. For them, it is a way of using their particular skills and the power of their large purses to set themselves above the common throng.

Common throng? Well in other countries perhaps. In the USA the only folks watching the sailboat races are those who know someone who races. None of those folks are common. Compare with auto racing, or any of a number of sports. No something else is going on, at least in the USA.

A lot of races now have crew weight limits, and most boats would sneak another man along if they could. Still, an Open 60 with one man aboard can out sail a lot of heavily manned boats of similar length.

Nice wrap up.

 

Do I have to? It hurts my eyes!

 

I'd say you're completely justified. Putting myself in your shoes, what a queasy feeling you must get knowing that Frankie is associating himself with your boat. Yech! The guy is scum on the internet and appears to be scum in person.


Frankie, as for whether or not you are banned from your club's bb, if you see a notice there telling you that you're banned (one that I don't see when I log in, incidentally) then guess what... YOU ARE BANNED.