Inboard Diesel to CPP via V-Drive - Transmission in forward, thrust in reverse...

Discussion in 'Propulsion' started by Creeky, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. Creeky
    Joined: Mar 2013
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    Creeky Junior Member

    I recently purchased a 1980 Creekmore 45' that has yet to be completed and was just launched for the first time last October. The other day I finished hooking up the engine controls and drivetrain to see if everything was working and sure enough it wasn't... When I put the transmission in forward I had reverse thrust and vice versa. At first I thought that I had hooked up the controls wrong, but I triple checked and that was all correct. Here is how everything is set up:

    Westerbeke W80 reverse mounted into a Velvet Drive C71 (Model 10-17-004, Ratio 1:1) then to a Walter RV-20 V-Drive (Ratio 2.56:1) and finally into a West Mekan AS Type 40 HV3 Controllable Pitch Prop setup (no, it doesn't go far enough to reverse the thrust; I checked). All of these have zero hours on them and were just connected for the first time on Monday, with the exception of the engine which was started about once a month since the 80's.

    I have been able to find manuals and specs online for everything except the West Mekan prop assembly. I believe it is Dutch or Scandinavian or something. From everything I have read it sounds like everything is working properly, but I just have the wrong V-Drive. I see that there is an RV-20 available with an idler gear to reverse the prop direction, but that is not the one I have. The only thing is that the original owner of the boat seemed to plan everything out meticulously and to exact specifications, so this seems like a very unlikely oversight.

    I know I can't run it in reverse to get forward thrust, and I can't think of any other solution except swapping out the V-Drive. Can anyone with some more experience tell me if there is something else I am missing in terms of this setup? I just don't want to switch out the original parts to find out that there was some other setting I could have put things in to make it work properly.

    Also, has anyone ever heard of the type of West Mekan setup I have or know where I could find some literature on it? I emailed the company directly, but never received a response.
     
  2. keysdisease
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    keysdisease Senior Member

    Is the engine reverse rotation? I doubt it but I thought worth mentioning.

    Have you confirmed at the gear that the lever on the gear is in forward when the control is in forward? Most controls I am familiar with can be set up either way for F or R

    Being from So FL I'm a big fan of anything Creekmore, always something that makes you stop and think, but somehow works way cool :cool:

    Steve
     
  3. Creeky
    Joined: Mar 2013
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    Creeky Junior Member

    Hi Steve, from the transmission side of the engine it rotates in the LH direction, as does the driveshaft coming out of the transmission while in forward. I confirmed that the position at the transmission is in forward when the controls are forward.
     
  4. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    You may have an opposite rotation propeller.
     
  5. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    Location: Finland/Norway

    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    West Mekan is Norwegian company and yes, they have it difficult to answer emails, so just call them they speak fluent english... and then call them again..

    Why you can't run it reverse? And if there's a way around it?

    Think you have the gear ratios wrong in the op.

    Second Keys about the controls. It's also very easy to get confused about rotational directions with V drives espacially if you are peeking under the engine head down etc..
     
  6. 7228sedan
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    Location: New Jersey USA

    7228sedan Senior Member

    I know that there are 2 versions of the velvet drive V drive; gear & chain. The gear driven was RH rotation and the chain was for LH rotation. Did Walter have a similar option for their drives? If not you could rotate the pump on the front of the velvet drive 180 degrees and reverse the rotation of the output if I'm not mistaken... Just be sure you wouldn't be spinning the V-Drive in reverse in order to create forward thrust.:eek:
    Forward on the velvet drive should be engaged by moving the lever on the transmission toward the engine. Which way is the lever moving when you place the lever in forward at the helm?
     
  7. Creeky
    Joined: Mar 2013
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    Creeky Junior Member

    From what I have read it sounds like both of the Walter RV-20 V-Drives were gear driven, with one of them having an additional idler gear to reverse the prop direction. I spoke with them to try to get a deal on a refurbished one or one out of old stock that might be lying around, but no such luck. It sounds like I need to either source a used one somewhere or pony up the ~$3,200 for a new RV-26 if I want to swap out the V-Drive.

    Again, I verified that the controls are correct and that forward is in-fact forward at the transmission (i.e. lever towards engine), but thrust is still reverse.

    I also managed to get in touch with West Mekan on the phone and they said that they got my email, should definitely have information on my system, and would be happy to send it to me. I was very optimistic after speaking with them, but then I never got the reply... I will need to give them a try again this week.

    Also, as far as running it in reverse I have read that doing so will destroy the transmission, but it sounds like there is some conflicting information on the internet about that. I confirmed all the ratios posted directly from the identification plates on them, so the transmission is actually a 1:1 and the V-Drive is actually a 2.56:1, although I didn't see that exact ratio in the manuals I have seen online.
     
  8. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Holidays in Norway.. Every week in May at least one holiday and like today on thursday means many take free friday too (I do). Better to call on monday me thinks.
    BR Teddy
     
  9. 7228sedan
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    Location: New Jersey USA

    7228sedan Senior Member

    "Also, as far as running it in reverse I have read that doing so will destroy the transmission, but it sounds like there is some conflicting information on the internet about that."

    Are you referring to running the actual transmission in reverse to obtain forward thrust, or turning the V-Drive in reverse to obtain forward thrust? I wouldn't recommend either as the results are not favorable. There are far fewer reverse clutches in the transmission and they'd get burned up pretty quick. That being said, rotating the pump on the front of the transmission is the correct way to change the output rotation of the transmission as far as I know.
    The V-Drive is likely designed to handle the engines peak torque in it's forward rotation, while only a fraction of peak torque in reverse based on the cut on the gears. Were you able to confirm if the V-Drive is for RH or LH rotation in forward?
     

  10. Creeky
    Joined: Mar 2013
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    Creeky Junior Member

    Thanks for the input guys. I just finished my last final for the semester and can finally re-focus on getting my boat operational!

    Regarding the pump rotation for the transmission, from what the manual says that is only to match the direction of the engine, but that changing it will not reverse the direction of the rotation. I still don't quite understand why that is if it is truly a hydraulic transmission, but I confirmed it in the manual twice. As far as the proper direction of rotation for the V-Drive, it isn't clear in the little bit of information that came with it (see attached).

    I am becoming more and more convinced that the main issue is that the prop that is installed is the wrong rotation. If I manage to get some more information from West Mekan, hopefully I can confirm this and come up with a solution. It would be great if I could just make an adjustment to the blades, but I'm not optimistic. I found a video of the max prop CPP and it seems that you can change the default pitch and direction of the blades, so my fingers are crossed.

    From the stern, the engine and transmission (which are mounted in reverse) rotate in the RH direction into the V-Drive, meaning the prop rotates in the LH direction. From the West Mekan diagram it looks like the standard setup is likely for RH rotation, but again, unconfirmed. I hope to get some more information this week...
     

    Attached Files:

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